Quantcast

686+ Trigger Pull Issue

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing and Repairs' started by Riomouse911, Nov 17, 2018.

  1. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,275
    Location:
    Ca.
    Hey all,

    I took out the 686+ 4" yesterday and fired about 70 .38 Spl and 14 .357 rounds through it. Groups were working out very well for me, then I had a wonky trigger pull issue. For info; the gun is stock. There has been nothing done to the gun except bead blasting, and that was done 13-14 years ago. The internals were cleaned after the finish was done and I have fired it hundreds of times, so there isn't any grit inside the action. It does have the lock, but I have never used it.

    As I fired the final two .38 rounds all was fine, then he gun's trigger would BARELY pull. I literally had to take my off hand and push the top of the cylinder to get the cylinder to turn, then it fired. I fired two more rounds, then it did it again. Ultimately I set it aside and shot something else.

    When I got home I put the u-tube clips on about the internals of the modern S&W, and then removed the sideplate. I noticed the sideplate screws were in their spots but neither one was tight at all, but ithe sideplate did look to be fitted against the frame tightly. When I got the sideplate off the hammer block seemed to be out of place (It could have ridden out from it's position when I lifted the sideplate, I don't know.)

    I wiped down what I could, visually checked the function compared to the gunsmith videos, and all looked good. I then reinstalled the hammer block to it's correct spot after a light lube. I tightened the sideplate screws and reinstalled the grip and then pulled the trigger DA about 50 times. I had no further goofy trigger pulls.

    My question is; could the looseness of the sideplate screws allow the middle of the sideplate to flex enough to allow the hammer block to fall out of place and cause this issue, or do you think is it something else that is going to pop up again when I am firing away with it?

    Thanks!

    Stay safe!
     
  2. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    N. GA
    When you turned the cylinder by hand did it drag or was it easy to turn?

    If it dragged then it was possibly a primer backed out.

    If the cylinder turned easily by hand then it would be the internals I'd be looking at.
     
  3. Col. Harrumph

    Col. Harrumph Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Messages:
    244
    Location:
    Noo Hamsher
    If I read you correctly, the problem was that something was interfering with cylinder rotation. It's possible that a couple of bullets stayed more or less in place, unseating themselves as the gun recoiled. Then when its turn comes up, such a bullet will catch its nose on the edge of the forcing cone.
     
  4. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,275
    Location:
    Ca.
    I thought about that, but these were .38 spl. that I loaded myself. I use a Lee hand primer to seat one primer at a time so I don’t think it was the primers. I crimp the loads well because I remember having bullets jump a crimp once with .44 Spl and I now make it a point to check each round. I still have some unfired rounds in the range bag so I’ll double check both to make sure.

    I frites two shots, then it bound up. The cylinder turned using just a finger on my left hand. The next round fired, then it turned normally for the next shot, then drug again and needed to be assisted again. That’s when I thought it may be internal because none of the previous 70-odd Spl loads acted up.

    Oh the mystery :(

    Thanks for responding! :thumbup:
     
  5. BBBBill

    BBBBill Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,087
    Location:
    Alabama and Florida
    If the side plate screws were loose it suggests that someone has been into the guts to possibly do some tuning. Perhaps it was "over tuned", removing too much from one or more fitted mating surfaces. An S&W is not an old style Colt in complexity, but there are still many multipurpose parts with multiple mating surfaces and critical fit to enable correct function.

    Since each chamber/ratchet pad/locking notch is a tiny bit different from the others (normal production machining tolerances) one or two chambers might be the source of the problem. Might be informative to temporarily mark or number each chamber and test fire while observing to see if it is the same chamber(s) each time. Perhaps a sharp eyed observer standing to the side and watching the cylinder closely might see something. If that proves to be the case it will help you further isolate the problem. A slightly bent yoke can sometimes cause erratic function on some chambers. Even the cylinder stop can cause some issues if it is improperly fit or worn.

    I presume this is the new style with V grooved yoke slot and spring loaded yoke retainer. If it is the old style note that the yoke screw is identical to the lower rear side plate screw except that the tip is hand fitted to the yoke slot, so it must be returned to the same hole.
     
  6. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,275
    Location:
    Ca.
    Sounds good, I’ll mark them all and shoot it a bunch to see if it’s specific cylinders every time.

    The guts were taken out and then replaced when it was bead blasted so all the media could be blown out. I don’t recall the armorer who did it saying any stoning or tuning was done to the action, but that is a possibility.

    If it happens again I think I’ll send it back to S&W and pay for a repair.

    (The side plate screws appeared identical, and the bottom yoke screw had the pointed black tip. I did the Brownells trick and drew the side plate on a piece of cardboard and put the screws into the same spots they were taken from so I wouldn’t mix them up.).

    Stay safe!
     
  7. JRadice45

    JRadice45 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Did you check for powder / residue under the extractor? Depending on your load you could be getting buildup under the extractor which can cause the binding you describe.
     
    351 WINCHESTER likes this.
  8. LoonWulf

    LoonWulf Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    6,790
    Location:
    Hawaii
    It sounds likely the side plate being loose allowed something to miss align and drag.
     
  9. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,275
    Location:
    Ca.
    Yesterday I checked the fired cases for raised primers and all were good, so that’s out as a cause. I cycled it again another 50-60 times and no drag. I think I’ll shoot it next friday and see if the issue returns.

    I also cleaned it good so the extractor star should be good to go. I didn’t see anything that stood out, but I’ll bet it doesn’t take much to lift it out of whack and bind it up.

    Thanks for all the responses!
     
  10. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,275
    Location:
    Ca.
    63ED28CE-19CF-4143-B344-FEB61E1DF76A.jpeg I took it out today and fired it using 158 gr FP plated reloads and then unplated lead 158 SWC reloads.

    It fired the first 35 to 40-odd shots without a hitch. Then it started getting occasionally stiff again, and then bound up completely. No unfired bullets were protruding out from the cases and all primers we’re not raised on the fired cases in the cylinder when it quit.

    You can see the goofy flyers starting to hit low and then way off to the right from the trigger beginning to bind on the target, which is a reduced scale US Treasury Dept silhouette I was shooting at 10 yds.

    I’ll be calling S&W on Monday for a return label and I’ll ship it back to be fixed.

    Thanks again for the responses!

    Stay safe!
     
    LoonWulf likes this.
  11. mcb

    mcb Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,079
    Location:
    North Alabama
    Check that the ejector rod has not gotten loose and unscrewed.
     
    351 WINCHESTER likes this.
  12. shell70634

    shell70634 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    West Louisiana
    Check extractor alignment pins. Had a 686 with same problem. One pin was missing
     
  13. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,275
    Location:
    Ca.
    All in the cylinder is good and the rod tight and nothing looks askew...I had that exact problem when I bought the used M-13. That one did have a loose ejector rod, and it bound up the action and wouldn't let it open. No issues with this opening and closing (so far!)

    One thing I noticed with these 7-shot Smiths is the extractor star has a couple of angled cuts that mesh perfectly with the ones on the cylinder so it can only be installed in one position. The angled ones are to the bottom, and the straight-across cuts are at the top. (Forgive the blurry pics, they all looked better on the phone screen!)

    I didn't see any pins under the extractor like my M-13 has (Middle and Bottom pics). It all seems to line up well and nothing can overhang a charge hole without an arm being bent.

    I'm stumped. I swear the recoil is knocking the hammer block loose inside the action and it's getting hung up against the frame. It acts like something is floating around in there loose and it acts up only after a batch of rounds have been fired.

    Oh well, off to S&W it goes!

    Thanks again for all the responses, you guys are the best. When I get an answer from S&W I'll update.

    Stay safe!

    686 Extractor (2).jpg 686 ejector rod.jpg M-13.jpg
     
  14. RecoilRob

    RecoilRob Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,960
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Did you happen to check the barrel/cylinder gap? Tight is good for reduced leakage but can cause binding when it gets warm and dirty from shooting. I've had several wheelguns like that....went several cylinders full without problems but then started to get sticky. Let them cool down and were fine for some more shooting. If you want to be able to fire lots and lots of rounds you might need to enlarge the gap a bit to allow for the expansion that will take place.
     
  15. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    19,664
    Removal of the sideplate (by tapping on the grip with the handle of a screwdriver or mallet) can dislodge the hammer block from its place atop the rebound slide. I wouldn't worry about it.

    I'm wondering if the cylinder stop wasn't dropping, thereby preventing the cylinder from rotating?
     
  16. WrongHanded
    • Contributing Member

    WrongHanded Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    783
    Having had this problem myself, have you checked the B/C gap? I had a revolver with a very tight gap, and once the gun got dirty, it started to bind. Intermittently.
     
  17. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,275
    Location:
    Ca.
    That BC gap could be it. I didn’t see any scratches or other obvious marks on the front of the cylinder, but it sure could be the reason it binds up only after shooting a handful of rounds...

    I called and got a shipping label from S&W today. I’ll be heading out for a motorcycle race in the morning, I’ll be dropping it off at fed ex in Lake Havasu Az tomorrow... if I get there before they close!

    Stay safe.
     
  18. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,526
    Location:
    GA
    You can check the barrel/cylinder gap yourself with cheap feeler gages picked up at any auto parts store or some hardware stores. Pretty useful to have on hand.
     
  19. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    19,664
    What BoomBoom suggested. We used feeler gauges to determine it.
     
  20. Clemson

    Clemson Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    657
    Location:
    Greenwood, SC
    If someone has backed out the strain screw too far, that mainspring can knuckle and create the problem that you are describing. The solution is to keep the strain screw seated all the way in. If it has been shortened, it needs to be replaced.

    Bill Jacobs
     
    boom boom and alfsauve like this.
  21. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,275
    Location:
    Ca.
    It’s enroute to Springfield Ma. Via Fed Ex, so I’ll find out what the issue is and let you know.

    Thanks again for all the responses!

    Stay safe!
     
    boom boom likes this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice