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7/29/05 - Senate S.397 Discussion

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Bartholomew Roberts, Jul 29, 2005.

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  1. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Debate on S.397 today will likely not begin until this afternoon; but those of you who can should keep an eye on CSPAN since the cloture vote is scheduled for today and the issue could come up despite not being scheduled.

    There are at least four amendments that will receive a vote today before cloture - a Kennedy Ammo Ban, Exemption for Law Enforcement, Exemption for Parents Whose Children Are Injured By Guns, and an unknown amendment offered by Reed. Most of these amendments were offered last year as well and all of them failed the vote then with fewer pro-gun members in the Senate.

    We really need to turn up the pressure on our Senators though. Today should be the final day on this. We want them to know we will be watching no matter what.
     
  2. Norton

    Norton Member

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    Do we have any specifics on the text of the amendments?
     
  3. txgho1911

    txgho1911 Member

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    Here is your most accurate grade for Senators

    I am watching my Senators votes. They are not aligned with my wishes.
    Keep up with yours.

    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00207
    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00208


    Anyone else in Indiana who Want to help oust the rino with a good replacement lets get it busy tis year. I warned Kent a few weeks ago that he might get recruited for this.

    El Tejon for US Senate!
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2005
  4. aquapong

    aquapong Member

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    Eyes on. :scrutiny:
     
  5. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    No specifics on the text of the amendments. None of them are online yet or present in the Congressional Record. The guess above is based on what Senators have said during the debate so far and news reports of the debate.

    We know what the amendment numbers are (1615, 1619, 1620, and 1642). These correspond to amendments from Kennedy, Corzine, Lautenberg, and Reed respectively. Going back into the Congressional Record you can see Corzine and Lautenberg offer amendments with exemptions from S.397 for certain groups. An AP newswire reports that an ammo ban will be voted on today (Kennedy?) and we don't know what Reed is offering.
     
  6. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Looks like Craig and Frist are picking amendments that will lose.

    Good deal.

    It will shut the Dems up.

    "Hey you got votes on some of your amendments."
     
  7. NCGUN

    NCGUN Member

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    So Warner's amendment is Dead?
     
  8. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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  9. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    Like yesterday, I expect the votes will be on motions to table the amendments, not votes on the amendments themselves.

    Warner's amendment has apparently been dismissed. It was one which would have undermined the bill's entire concept. Warner is trying to preserve the existing VA cases related to the Malvo sniper thing (Bullseye). Allowing that would mean insurance premiums or refused liability coverage would still put gun dealers out of business, even the best of them. Passage of the bill will kill the Malvo case. The bill does provide justice in that Bullseye has already lost its license.

    Trigger locks did not get tabled, because Frist liked it and voted for it. Obviously it is widely supported (70%). It remains to be seen if that amendment is retained through conference with the House.

    Whatever is voted on will not be with full attendance. After lunch on a Friday, lots of Senators head for the airport. Even if the session is held over, several will be exempted and excused for prior commitments.
     
  10. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    I have called my Senators local offices (DeWine & Voinovich) and their offices in DC (866-220-0044, and ask for your Senators office) I have politely requested they represent my by voting yes on S397 and NO! on amdenments 1615, 1619, 1620 & 1642.
     
  11. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    If cloture is passed I assume the trigger lock amendment can be thrown out as non germane, right?

    :confused:
     
  12. K-Romulus

    K-Romulus Member

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    interesting

    (from the WashPost article)

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/29/AR2005072900272.html

    Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., introduced an amendment that would ban hollow-tipped, "cop killer" bullets.

    Edited to add):

    I tracked down the text of Kennedy's Amendments:

    (hopefully link to congr. record works)
    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r109:6:./temp/~r109IsYwfa:e0:

    SA 1615. Mr. KENNEDY submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S . 397 , to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:


    On page 13, after line 4, insert the following:

    SEC. 5. ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

    (a) EXPANSION OF DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.--Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

    (1) in clause (i), by striking ``or'' at the end;

    (2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting a semicolon; and

    (3) by adding at the end the following:

    ``(iii) a projectile that may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines, under section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor; or

    ``(iv) a projectile for a center-fire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, under section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''.

    (b) DETERMINATION OF THE CAPABILITY OF PROJECTILES TO PENETRATE BODY ARMOR.--Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

    ``(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

    ``(2) The standards promulgated under paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the length of the barrel of the handgun or center-fire rifle from which the projectile is fired and the amount and kind of powder used to propel the projectile.

    ``(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.''.

    ***************

    The link works, and lets you read all the other amendments in the following consecutive pages (click on the "Forward" link at the top and bottom of the page).

    Other amendments include a ban on the FiveSeven handgun and various carve-outs from the liability bill, including a carve-out for .50 BMG rifle.
     
  13. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    I think it would help to give them a rationale, such as to keep it a legal reform bill, not a messy gun control bill.
     
  14. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Kennedy's amendment will be slapped down like last year.

    I also noticed Frist offered another amendment but THOMAS does not have it's text.
     
  15. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    No, the gun lock amendment is now part of S.397. The only chance to remove it would be in the House-Senate conference committee if S.397 passes (the House version of this bill has no gun lock language).
     
  16. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Ah...........okay
     
  17. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Yeah, that's pretty much the same Kennedy ammo ban from last year where he specifically mentioned .30-30 as one of the evil calibers that needed to be banned. It went down in flames last year with 5 more F-rated Senators than are there this year.
     
  18. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    He must have listened to Dennis Leary's "No Cure for Cancer" too. ;)
     
  19. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    They are finishing up debate on the Energy conference report... so S.397 could come up any time now. With four votes scheduled plus a cloture vote and a final vote, they will have to start debate on it soon I imagine.
     
  20. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Are they going to vote on the two Frist/Craig amendments?


    I noticed they blocked amendments to restrict 50 calibers and to ban the FN 5-7 pistol.
     
  21. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Well, they haven't allowed votes on them yet or scheduled votes yet.Since cloture is today, hopefully that means they are blocked; but let's not take anything for granted.
     
  22. 71Commander

    71Commander Member

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    Thanks all for keeping an update. I'm back to tube scaning. :(
     
  23. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Here we go...back to 397...

    Sawdust
     
  24. Inoxmark

    Inoxmark Member

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    S397 debates just begun.
     
  25. Daniel T

    Daniel T Member

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    Time to start hitting Refresh every 30 seconds then. :)
     
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