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7- 30 Waters and the 30-30 brass?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by grandpawj, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. grandpawj

    grandpawj Member

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    Any of you fellas ever fireform 30-30 brass to the 7-30 Waters. If so how did it go?
     
  2. jak67429

    jak67429 Member

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    When I had a 7-30 waters in a contender I fire formed most of my brass from 30-30 brass. Steps I took were to full length resize, then fire form with a light load (you need to make sure it is high enough pressure to form the brass). I found that annealing after fire forming gave me a lot better case life.
     
  3. whughett

    whughett Member

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    As a past Hunter and 30/30 fan, in large part because of the rifle it’s self, I’m curious of the benefits of a 7MM rimed round. What rifle would be used.

    Apoliges if off topic.
     
  4. wombat13

    wombat13 Member

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    The 7-30 waters is interesting, but the only aerodynamic 7mm bullet that's designed for tube magazines is the 120 gr FTX.
     
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  5. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Almost all of my 7-30 brass is 30-30. It’s a really simple process, stick 30-30 case in the die holder and load it exactly like a 7-30 with the only caveat being that I make sure to use more lube to resize. Fire forming the loads is a whole bunch of hogwash in my experience because there is no notable difference in anything from a fire formed load or a fresh resize. Load it and shoot it.
     
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  6. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    I'm not getting something here. How does one fit a .330 neck case into a .310 chamber for fireforming?
     
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  7. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    Im with this guy.
     
  8. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Ken Waters' idea, Winchester put it in the Model 94 lever action for those who think millimetres are better.
    Easy to make a TC barrel for.
    You could rebarrel a M54, M70, M99, or M788 .30-30 for it.
     
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  9. whughett

    whughett Member

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    It never really caught on. I’m surprise the rimmed old timers have lasted as long as they have, a tribute to the lever action rifles I suppose.

    Again off post. The 94 carbine was hard to beat as a carry carbine in the North Woods. Mine, now a safe queen, traveled many a mile in almost 20 years of woods carry in middle Maine.
     
  10. Nature Boy
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    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    A single shot 7-30 Waters Ackley Improved would be pretty cool
     
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  11. Barr

    Barr Member

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    I fire-formed .30-30 Winchester brass in my 7-30 Waters TC Contender.

    My first barrel was a re-chambered 7mm, unclear whether it was a 7 GNR or 7-30 Ackley Improved. Case failure was 50% and vented gas in the neck.

    My second barrel is a true 7-30 Waters and case life and accuracy have been great with IMR 3031 and a 139 grain bullet.
     
  12. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    But how? The 30-30 case neck is .330 and the 7-30 Waters chamber is .310. So, I don't understand how one fits the 30-30 case into the 7-30 chamber and how firing it would size the case neck down to .308-.306?
     
  13. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    You use empty 30-30 brass, and run it through the full length resizing die on a reloading press. That resizes the neck down to fit in the 7-30 chamber. It takes surprisingly little force to do it and it comes out very uniform and very nice most of the time.
     
  14. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    Thank you. That makes perfect sense.

    But where's the fire forming? Once you run the 30-30 brass through the 7-30 Waters FL die, it's 7-30 Waters brass...

    Perhaps my understanding of the term is imperfect. I understand fire forming to be when brass of smaller dimensions than the chamber in which they are being fired are shot from said chamber, thereby expanding to the correct dimensions for the chamber. If the brass has already been formed by being run through the correct full length sizing die and expander ball, then isn't it just "fired"? (Not meaning to be argumentative, I just don't understand how 30-30 brass formed in the sizing die need be fireformed.)
     
  15. Barr

    Barr Member

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    Full length sizing reduces neck diameter using external pressure against the case and internal pressure against the neck.

    A Waters cartridge also pushes the shoulder forward (increasing internal volume). Fire forming or hydraulic forming is required to create an internal pressure against the shoulder to push the shoulder forward as the final step.

    As an example see the modified 7mm unknown on the left and the 7mm Waters on the right in the attached photo. The unknown was fire formed and the right was full length sized, fire forming gives the Waters final shoulder definition and form against the rifle chamber wall.
     

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  16. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    Thank you!
     
  17. grandpawj

    grandpawj Member

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    Thanks to all. I feel, if I am careful, I can fireform some empty 30-30 cases to the 7-30 Waters without too much trouble. I, first, must buy a set of 7-30 dies. I have already checked sources for 7-30 ammo for my TC-Contender and I was not able to find any, so it seems my only alternative is to do the 30-30 thing. Again, thank you all for your response.
     
  18. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    I have a 7mm International Rimmed T/C Contender barrel that I used to shoot in IHMSA silhouette. The cartridge is similar to the 7-30 Waters.

    If I remember correctly, I'd run the 30-30 cases through the 7mm Int Rimmed sizing die then load them, with my standard load. I'd use the fire form loads during practice.

    Notes, the 7mm Int Rimmed chambers were designed to use 30-30 cases without doing any trimming to the necks. The 7-30 Waters may require the necks to be thinned a little.
     
  19. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    I love my 14” T/C Contender in 7-30 Waters. Very, very accurate and I’ve been able to take several deer with it.

    I’m down to my last 100 pieces of factory 7-30 Waters brass. I did buy the form die to make .30/30 cases into 7-30 Waters brass.

    Forming the brass has already been explained. I did read that fire forming should be done with a starting 7-30 Waters load. Whether that’s true or not, I don’t know. Guess when it comes time to fire form I’ll be making that decision.
     
  20. WVRJ

    WVRJ Member

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    My 7-30 is a 21 inch Contender barrel.I fire form 30-30 brass by using the starting load for powder and seat the bullet to within .020 of the lands.After fire forming,I turn the case necks just a tiny bit to get them uniform.I shoot 120 grain bullets in it,and have killed several deer with it,the longest shot being 300 yards.This setup is a dream to carry and hunt with.I put a red dot sight on it and it weighs a little less than 5 pounds.I put a scope on it for load development and it turned in groups that averaged in the 1.5 MOA range.I have also kept the loads light and it makes a great rifle for a young beginner.
     
  21. Jerry M

    Jerry M Member

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    If you load one in the chamber and one in the magazine (tube magazine) you can use spritzers. You just never want more than one spritzer in the mag at a time. buddy of mine shoots 185 gr burgers out of a .30-30 at long range targets. Depends on what you are shooting.

    Good luck

    Jerry
     
  22. frankmako

    frankmako Member

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    i lube a 30-30 case and resize the case in a 7-30 sizing die. then i load the case. same way i make 7-08 cases from 308, 30-223 cases from 5.56, 7 tcu cases from 5.56 cases. not realy hard to do.
     
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  23. Ks5shooter
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    Ks5shooter Contributing Member

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    THIS^^^^^ been doing it this way forever.
     
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