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7.62 x39 ar

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by semper_fidelis, Dec 15, 2009.

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  1. semper_fidelis

    semper_fidelis Member

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    Hey folks, I know I just asked about an AK but I've done some more looking and talking to the old guy the raised me and this seems like a better root for me. What do y'all know about AR's in 7.62 X 39? Who makes good ones at lower prices. I plan on buying the cheaper version (fixed carry handle, fixed stock,) with the exception of a chrome barrel if I can find one. Any help or advice is appreciated. Thanks

    ________________________________________________
    Marines don't die they go to Hell and regroup
     
  2. John Parker

    John Parker Member

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    Check out the cost, availability, and durability of 7.62x39 AR magazines. It may be a significant detractor.
     
  3. jojo200517

    jojo200517 Member

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    So lets see if I understand, you want a rifle that shoots 7.62x39 instead of 5.56x45, you want it cheap, you want a fixed stock, you want a chromed barrel? The only thing the AK doesn't have is that silly carry handle, special mags and a much larger price tag. I'd assume you want to actually be able to shoot it cheaply, thus shooting cheapo ammo. The ultra cheap stuff is known to cause some issues in the 5.56x45 version of the AR, I can't speak for the 7.62x39 AR's but I'd still say its more likely to work in the AK platform since they were designed to work together.

    I'd just go for the AK, they come in black too now if thats a concern.
     
  4. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    As noted, the biggest problem is magazines for a x39 AR15. There are few options, none of the options are considered top quality (C-Products is probably the best, but that's not saying a lot), and it's inherently hard to do because the x39 case is so heavily tapered but the AR magwell forces the magazine to be straight for the top 2" or so. Yes, it can be done, just don't expect terrific reliability.

    For brands, I would look at an Armalite first. Top quality, price should be reasonable right now. They are chrome lined. Not many x39 barrels (for an AR-15) are chrome lined. Del-Ton and Model 1 Sales offer uppers, but I believe with non-chrome-lined barrels. Ditto for DPMS.
     
  5. wally

    wally Member

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    Getting good mags for the 7.62x39 AR, unless you are happy with 10 round capacity, is the only issue IMHO.

    For economy AR shooting its hard to beat a 5.45x39 AR upper and the surplus corrosive ammo for ~$150/1000.

    My J&T 7.62x39 AR upper says the Wolf JHP ammo is not a bad as the AK makes it out to be.

    --wally.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2009
  6. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    This is a good point. You can also get new non-corrosive 5.45 ammo (Wolf or Silver Bear) for about the same price as new 7.62x39mm ammo. The mags are only slightly different from .223 mags and work just fine. Your best bet on this route is the S&W M&P15 in 5.45.
     
  7. wally

    wally Member

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    They are different enough to not work for me unless loading only 15-20 rounds is good enough.

    --wally.
     
  8. semper_fidelis

    semper_fidelis Member

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    well your wrong on just about all counts jojo200517. the reason I'm going for the fixed stock is because its cheaper for now. the tighter tolerances should equal better accuracy. they are actually cheaper in many cases. model 1 makes a non-chrome for approximately $530 while many ak can run easily over that especially where I live. Oh and the crack about the color isnt appreciated.
     
  9. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    Is that with mags made specifically for 5.45x39mm (I believe only CProducts is currently selling such mags, though rumors are that Lancer Systems will be someday soon) or are you talking about standard .223 mags? The cases are a bit different.
     
  10. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    What you are talking about, is really called a saiga. 16 inch bbl, chrome lined bore, more accurate than proly all other ak's out there, 350 for an unconverted one, 450 to 550 for a converted one. ak mags are cheap and hardy.
    ' chef recommends...'

    about 99% of all ak's out there, are made with used parts; Saigas are 100% all new, factory made,
    from the origional russian factory, that first made ak's.
     
  11. Uncle Mike

    Uncle Mike Member

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    A good 7.62X39 AR....Olympic Arms...not too bad on price either.
     
  12. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    MGI MARCK-15 (AR that uses AK mags)
    mgi762gun.jpg
     
  13. wally

    wally Member

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    I was talking about loading 5.45x39 into .223 mags which you seem to imply would work. My experience is the 5.45 rounds don't stack right in a .223 mag so I never tried shooting them.

    The purpose built (I believe they are C-Products) 5.45x39 mags I have work fine. I've the S&W 5.45x39 upper and have had it on a couple of different lowers. I think I paid $60 for four of them at the gun show where I got the upper (a steal at $450 back in Oct '08!).

    --wally.
     
  14. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    Wally, I didn't mean to imply that regular .223 mags work for 5.45. I said:

    So, 5.45 mags are slightly different from .223 mags - one less rib, different follower, etc., but since the 5.45 cartridge isn't as tapered as the 7.62x39 case it fits much better within the confines of an AR magazine that has to fit in an AR-15 magwell.

    Anyway, I don't own a 5.45 AR, you apparently do, and your comments above are consistent with what I've been told by trainers I know who use 5.45.
     
  15. Dr.Mall Ninja

    Dr.Mall Ninja Member

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    I don't really understand why you would want to do that. If your trying to save money by going x39 why don't you just stay with the ak and save more?
     
  16. jojo200517

    jojo200517 Member

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    Good gosh there still that high on them up there? Prices are back down around 400-500 around my area for an AK. I do like the AR that takes AK mags, that would certainly solve the issue of mags being unreliable. Yeah i'd say the accuracy would probably be better with the AR. I would go flat top if that was possible however. I know plenty of people that have carry handle uppers that wish they had flat top. You can always get a carry handle to go on it if you need one.

    The "crack about the color" was in reference to AK's coming with black colored polymer furniture akin to what you would find on an AR, as opposed to the traditional wood. It was in no way a racist remark. I just know some people (like me) don't like wood on our guns. You can get both of the rifles in in tan or green furniture also. I do apologize if this in anyway offended anyone because that was not the intention here.
     
  17. Grease Monkey

    Grease Monkey Member

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  18. tkcomer

    tkcomer Member

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    The two biggest problems with the AR in 7.62X39 are light hammer strikes on mil surp or Russian made ammo and of course the magazines. If you head on over to http://www.ar15.com/ and go to the AR Variants under the AR-15 tab, you can get a lot of info there. The firing pin can be modified to fire the hard primers on the Russian made ammo. As for me, I used the MGI enhanced bolt in mine. And I'm using C-Products 10 round clips. I've never fired any of the “animal” brand of ammo through it, but it fires the lacquer coated German and copper washed Chinese ammo without a hitch. The upper is a 16”, flat top, free floated and has a target barrel from Model 1 Sales. The lower has the RRA trigger in it. With the MGI bolt, I have absolutely no problems firing the above ammo with the light trigger. And my clips never jam. It's not as accurate as the 223 upper I have, but it is fun to shoot.
     
  19. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    6.8 SPC renders the question irrelevant. :D
     
  20. svaz

    svaz Member

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    Waaaahhahahaha. Not to get terribly personal, but only a firearms neophyte would have mistaken the "black rifle" comment as racist (for the record, I like my firearms furniture to be of the triglyceride-impregnated cellulose variety).

    Anyway, the AK-mag lower for the AR got me all excited, until I saw the price tag on that puppy! Good lord man, this isn't 10 months ago!

    If AK's are stupid expensive where sempre-fidelis lives, he might consider perusing Gunbroker, Guns America, Auction Arms, or even CDNN & Centerfire (looks like they have Romanians, Yugos, Poles, & Bularians for under $500 (which is $150 more than they are worth, IMHO).
     
  21. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    I will be converting en masse to 6.8 SPC whenever I can buy it readily for 60 cents/round or less. It is a better overall balance than any of the other AR type calibers. Until then....
     
  22. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    Check Cabelas for Silver State 6.8. The stuff is out there.

    A shooter can get an AR in a lot of calibers these days, but I have to ask, why 7.62 x 39? It's ballistically the same as .30-30 - well known as a short range, adequate deer killer, but not exemplary.

    Good grief, the bullet drop is measured in feet beyond 300 yards. Cheap milsurp or import ammo isn't known for MOA accuracy, either. More like 4 MOA. A .30-30 with Leverevolution will do better. AK ammo better be cheap, as much practice as necessary to get the holdover right will be needed.

    There are a lot better, more modern calibers out there than a 1940's era third world curio. I'd think someone wanting to shoot the AR platform would be looking for ballistics to match, not downgrading.

    As for ammo costs, I see the biggest impediment to cheaper ammo as a complete lack of willingness to reload with something other than a credit card. Doing your own pays it's way.I will also point out the illogic of many who insist on quality in their firearm but who buy the cheapest military reject ammo they can shoot. I don't see that as either a sign of expertise or a way to gain it.

    If someone has a high round count training regimen and hasn't moved to a .22 platform, reconsider it. Shoot the good stuff when it counts.
     
  23. YaNi

    YaNi Member

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    I have been beating my head over the ar vs ak decision. The AR-47 seems like the best compromise (other than the price). The 7.62x39 is cheap, and is a bigger round than the .223. The AR platform is known for its accuracy, but I can't hunt anything other than varmint with the .223. The two combined seems to be a killer combo.

    Cheap, hard hitting round + AR accuracy

    The 6.8SPC and 6.5Grendel would be tempting other than price and availability (I dont reload, yet..)
     
  24. wally

    wally Member

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    More accurate, and easier to scope an AR.

    As I said my AR 7.62x39 upper proves the Russian ammo is not as bad as the AK makes it out to be.

    I like AR uppers that shoot ammo that is cheaper than 5.56x45. Only justification I need.

    I like the AK for its simplicity and ruggedness. I like the AR for its accuracy and ergonomics.

    I usually take and shoot both an AR and an AK in the caliber I've got the most ammo for. Don't see a difference worth considering for 5.56 vs. 5.45 other than the low price of corrosive 5.45 surplus, but the 7.62x39 really rings the steel gong compared to the 5.xx rounds.

    If I hunted, I'd be happy with a good 7.62x39 JSP round, as someone else pointed out is pretty much same as a 30-30. OTOH I do enjoy shooting lever guns, but they can't compete in the cheap ammo department. I barely have time to keep up with the hand loading for my pistols so reloading for rifles is off the table for now.


    Over $0.20 per round is what I think is expensive :)

    I am perfectly willing to aim at bigger targets to compensate for the less accurate ammo.
    8" steel plates work great!

    --wally.
     
  25. RedLion

    RedLion Member

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    Don't buy cheap ammo expecting accuracy, regardless of what you're shooting it out of.
     
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