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7.62x25mm: Anything besides Tokareve and CZ-52?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Nightcrawler, Dec 25, 2003.

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  1. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    Are any pistols besides the Tokarev and CZ-52 chambered for the 7.62x25mm round? I ask because the round remains quite popular in Russia and that whole part of the world. I was wondering if anybody was making newer guns in that caliber.
     
  2. chevrofreak

    chevrofreak Member

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    I believe the Skorpion was chambered for this round as well. It can be considered a pistol cant it?
     
  3. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    The Skorpion was a Czech submachine gun chambered for 7.65mm (.32ACP) and 9x17mm (.380).
     
  4. DMK

    DMK Member

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    Off topic, but I'd love to see somebody make a 16" barreled carbine like the Mech-Tec units that would fit on a CZ-52 frame. That would be cool!
     
  5. James Bondrock

    James Bondrock Member

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    It is not a handgun, but there was a submachine gun from the WWII era called a PPsh. It had a 71-round (!) drum magazine. The Russians/Soviets were really big on submachine guns at the time. Shortly after WWII, they standardized the 9mm Makarov as an issue handgun. IIRC, the Tokarev cartridge is dimensionally identical to the 7.63 Mauser but loaded hotter, and the version used in the CZ52 is hotter still.
     
  6. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    There were several SMGs in 7.62x25mm. The PPD-40, the PPsh-41 "Burp Gun", and the PPS-43. All saw service with many countries for many years, despite being officially replaced by Kalashnikovs.

    It continues today, though. The Izhmash Bizon-2 submachine gun has a variant in 7.62x25mm, apparently feeding from Burp Gun 35 round magazines instead of the helicical (sp?) drum that most feed from.
     
  7. James Bondrock

    James Bondrock Member

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    The second one is the one I was thinking of. I have not heard the "burp gun" appellation for this one; it usually applies to the German MP40.
     
  8. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

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    Burp gun became, really, a generic term for submachine guns in enemy hands during WW II, Korea, and to a lesser extent, Vietnam.
     
  9. chevrofreak

    chevrofreak Member

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    I may be confusing it for the Skorpion, but I believe there was a gun very similar to the Skorpion that was chambered for this round, but I cant seem to find any info about it! :(
     
  10. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    Someone was selling semi-auto PPSH type carbines awhile back. I can't remember who had them now, but there was a review on them in one of the gun rags.
     
  11. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    You can get a BIZON SMG in this caliber...
    this is a helical drum fed AK based SMG.

    In other words, it's the schizznit.

    I'd like to see some other guns chambered for this round too. Like a match grade 1911... because I suspect this round has much greater accuracy potential than has ever been realized. Especially with properly made ammuntion and not just surplus.
     
  12. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

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    Chevron,

    You may be thinking of the Steichen, which was a Soviet pistol in 9x18 Makarov.

    It had something like an 18 round magazine, and turned into a submachine gun when the holser/buttstock was attached.
     
  13. max popenker

    max popenker Member

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    Mike, it was Stechkin, a 20-rounder with full-auto mode and detachable shoulder stock/holster.

    [​IMG]

    another SMG in 7.62x25 was the czech Sa.24
    [​IMG]
     
  14. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    did george hill just properly use an ebonics phrase about a gun? :D
     
  15. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    All Bizons use the Helical magazine.. and yeah... shiznit just about covers the look of a Bizon.

    The 9mm mak version holds 66 rds, the 7.63 Tok would hold what.. 33?
     
  16. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    According to Max's site, the drum on the Bizon in 7.62 holds 45 rounds. But according to the Izhmash site, the mag capacity is 35, so I think they primarily use Burp Gun mags in the Bizon 7.62mm.
     
  17. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    Bizons use helical mags. The length of the round reduces the overall capacity. This is why the .380 version has a much higher round count.
     
  18. Grayrider

    Grayrider Member

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    Slightly off track here, but I have wondered what a hi-cap 1911 would be like in this caliber. Perhaps take a Para setup for 9mm or 38 Super, then rebarrel. In 9mm at least only the barrel swap should be needed. Using the 9mm/38 Super mags, capacity would be around 18 rounds. The OAL of the round should be okay I would think, given the length of the .38 Super. The question is would the mags feed a bottle-necked round like that? Also, where would one get a 7.62x25 ramped barrel to fit the Para frame?

    GR
     
  19. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    I don't know either, but if you find one, let us know.

    Perhaps Jarvis could do one.
     
  20. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    It would be awesome in a G24/17L-sized Glock.

    I'm already thinking about getting 9x23mm 1911, but if the right 7.62x25 was available...

    Bison 3 is on my short list of subguns to get (along with the Skorpion .32), if they ever become available.

    http://club.guns.ru/eng/bizon.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2003
  21. tex_n_cal

    tex_n_cal Member

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    Occasionally, 1911's in 7.62x25...

    I have never examined one myself, but I recall that the Chinese did a number of conversions to captured 1911's after Korea. I believe it requires frame mods to get normal Tok rounds to fit, due to the OAL. I also understand you could work out an improvised solution with handloads set to slightly shorter OAL, in a .38 Super magazine, and the appropriate barrel.

    Serious 1911 experimenters only need apply:eek:

    Personally, I think I'd rather try a 10mm necked to 30 cal, myself:D
     
  22. nsmike

    nsmike Member

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    The 7.62x25 is basically the .30 Luger loaded hotter. Most of the Italian manufaturers have a civilian version of their 9mm's for their domestic market. I know for sure the Benelli B72 was available in it. FWIW the Italian domestic market is restricted to non military calibers.
     
  23. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    Hmm, I want one.
     
  24. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

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    "The 7.62x25 is basically the .30 Luger loaded hotter."

    No. Wrong round.

    The Tokarev round is derived from the 7.62 Mauser, not the shorter and less powerful 7.62 Luger.
     
  25. Bad Penny 03

    Bad Penny 03 Member

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    I vaguely recall Sig Sauer made P220's in this cal ( or .30 lug ) during the 80's and poss 90's for the European market.
    They had single column 8 or 9 round mags.
    Sorry I cant be more specific, didn't really impress me at the time.
    From what I hear the 7.62x25 SMG ammo penetrates stuff pretty well.

    Check around the Sig site or maybe gun auction sites that might have one or two in stock.
     
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