Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

7.62x39 AR?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Purgatory, Jul 29, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Dirty Dirty South
    Did a search-didn't find much.

    I've wondered about this for years. With the price and penetration of 7.62x39 and all the wonderful advantages of the AR platform, is this a match made in combat-heaven or an abomination?

    Seems like a nice middle-of-the-road between .308 and .223.

    Anyone own one?

    Opinions?
     
  2. Zanad

    Zanad Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    363
    Location:
    somewhere in the state of ID
  3. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    3,243
    Location:
    Earth, Currently
    Only question I have is if the AR extractor is gonna keep up with the steel cased ammo. I too have pondered the x39 AR. Good medium size game round.
     
  4. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Dirty Dirty South
    Lobo it seems like it be loads of fun to hunt with or do some Serious Plinkin' Work.

    Thanks, Zanad. That'll probably answer my questions.

    Any other opinions are welcome. I'll review both threads unless Mod wants to lock it up.
     
  5. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    11,269
    Location:
    28078
    +1, this is what led me to look elsewhere for a 7.62x39mm carbine. FWIW, I wasn't looking at purchasing an AR, but a different platform (MSAR E4) using AR type magazines. The factory went through 3-4 lots of different revision magazines (all from C-Products) and last I heard none operated well enough to be released. In fact it performed so poorly that the factory was debating scrapping the project...this is when I cancelled my order.

    :)
     
  6. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Dirty Dirty South
    I seem to be finding a handful of people confirming some feeding issues.

    If they're not equally or more reliable than a SKS or AK, there's no point.

    Especially at 3-4 times the price.
     
  7. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,660
    Location:
    Norra Texas
    I have several 7.62x39 AR15s that I built some years back. I used one of them for hunting extensively, and dropped many deer and hog with it.

    In years past, magazines were the weak link in the system. The tapered case of the 7.62x39 demands a curved magazine (like the AKs) and the long straight magwell of the AR platform doesn't work with curved magazines too well. MGW made low-cap mags that were OK, mostly, and that's what I used. Various folk tried to make FrankenMags, by welding a curved AK mag lower onto an AR straight upper mag section. They were hard to find, and quite variable in their quality.

    C Products made several generations of 7.62x39 AR mags, starting about four-five years ago. Their first efforts were utter failures. Their latest magazine works, and (for me) works quite well. I have many of them, and they all have proven reliable. Some folk reported having weak springs and having to substitute AK springs in the mag to make them reliable, but I have had none of those issues.

    My hunting AR15 will put five rounds of my handloads into an inch, plus or minus a wee bit depending on things, at a hundred yards, and do so all day long. It will not do that with cheap Russian ammo, of course, and I didn't built the rifles to use cheap ammo as much as I wanted the AR platform to be useful for hunting and other such things.

    I have moved to the 6.8SPC platform for most of my AR15 hunting uses, since that round works much better in the AR platform and had equal-to-slightly-better performance compared to the 7.62x39. However, I have kept the 7.62x39 rifles, because they work and are simply kinda cool to have around. I can handload 6.8SPC ammo for not much more than 7.62x39, and I save a lot of coin by buying Silver State ammo when I find it on clearance.

    If you're going to buy/build a 7.62x39 AR15 for use with the cheap Russian ammo, you will want to pay attention to the quality of the chamber (my hunting barrel has a tight chamber and gets finicky about extracting some steel cased ammo) and you will want to pay attention to the firing pin protrusion.
     
  8. wally

    wally Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    Messages:
    12,737
    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    I'd be one of them, but I'm happy to say the two most recent C-Products 30 round AR 7.62x39 both worked 100% out of the wrapper. Maybe they have figured things out, or just gave up and bought some AK mags springs from Bulgaria :)
     
  9. mongo4567

    mongo4567 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    649
    I have a Colt Match in 7.62x39, it is a great gun. Reasonably accurate and fun to shoot. I don't remember shooting anything but steel cased ammo. The mags are the weak point. I use only the factory Colt or USA franken-mags. They are a little hard to find and pricey, but they work great. I tried the first gen C-Products mags and they didn't work, but the company were good folks and happily made it right. I may try the latest ones.
     
  10. A and O

    A and O Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Messages:
    295
    Location:
    SoCal
    Or you could just buy a Mini 30. Reliable as the day is long and every bit or more so accurate as other platforms in 7.62x39.
     
  11. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Dirty Dirty South
    That's interesting about the x39 cartridge shape needing a more curved mag than the .223. Makes perfect sense but never heard it before.

    Heard lots good about the 6.8, but thought one of the cool aspects of a x39 AR would be the availability and affordability of ammo.

    rbernie:

    Would this be due to the lacquer or polymer coatings on the russian ammo gumming up the chamber?

    And as far as pin protrusion, you mean more protrusion for the hard russian primers?
     
  12. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,660
    Location:
    Norra Texas
    Yes, but the bigger issue is that steel cases do not expand and contract the same amount nor with the same 'timing' as brass. In short, steel cases tend to not spring back from their fully expanded shape as rapidly as brass and therefore the autoloader's extraction timing (which is normally 'timed' for brass cartridges) tends to want to yank the steel case out of the chamber before it's really and truly released from the chamber walls. This effect is more pronounced if the chamber is on the tight side anyway, while larger chambers and/or slicker chambers (chrome lined or highly polished) help in this regard.

    Both hardness and primer seating are issues; Russian ammo tends to have deeper primer pockers, and the primers are more 'recessed' as a result. The firing pin simply needs a wee bit o' extra 'reach' to get to the primer, and then it needs to have enough momentum to give it a good 'ding'. THR member krocus documented a field-expedient way to easily modify the AR firing pin to give the needed protrusion, and a search here should turn that up.
     
  13. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,660
    Location:
    Norra Texas
    Finally dug up this old picture from some years back. The story was that this hunter was still-hunting deer in the NoTexas brush and encountered this ~500lb boar at contact distance. Our hapless hunter was armed with a 7.62x39 AR15, and (while not the optimal choice for Biggie Piggie) the rifle and chambering were adequate to the task, with all shots being heart/lung and providing near-complete penetration.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Dirty Dirty South
    Not sure why this post only showed up today as having a response, but I sure appreciate the info, rbernie.

    I have read stories about the early M16's in 'NAM having issues with the extractor Ripping the rim of the cartridge off when attempting to extract due to unrealized, at the time, issues with fouling in the field. (Leaving the remainder of the cartridge practically fused inside the chamber.)

    While this would be more than inconvenient during a hunt, it would be an issue of nightmarish proportion during battle.

    You say ALL shots. Any idea how many it took to bring down this 'Zilla?

    That is a Beast. No need for camera tricks to make this score look BIGGER.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
  15. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,660
    Location:
    Norra Texas
    Four shots, all in the heart/lung area. Shot one was a killing shot (through both lungs and the heart) from left-to-right, and dropped the hog at 7 yards distance as he turned to 'investigate' the hunter. Biggie Piggie got back up after about 10-15 seconds, and in response got hit with another left-to-right shot that dropped him again. Hunter circled around while Biggie Piggie struggled to get back up, and the third shot moved right-to-left, stopping under the offhand shoulder hide. Piggie dropped and stayed down for a wee bit, but then got back up with a head of steam and headed for the hunter. Shot four entered from the top behind the head, sadly missing the spine but angling almost straight down and stopping in the ribcage after once again traversing the mush that was the pig's thoracic goo. At that point, the pig gave up the ghost.

    Several bullets were recovered - Sierra 125gr pills that had mushroomed completely but held together very well considering the plating that they had to traverse. There would have been no blood trail, since the rounds did not provide a gushing exit wound, but they penetrated more than enough to be fatal.

    The carbine used was built from a Shaw 16" barrel with a low-pro gas block and a M1S rifle-length float tube, using a standard lower and a MGW 5rd magazine stoked with handloads (RP brass, Sierra 125s, and 27gr of H4198).
     
  16. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    4,643
    Location:
    Yakutsk, Sakha Republic
    Don't forget 6.8spc if your into hunting. Way better range than 7.62x49.

    But for a defensive 14.5" middie build, 7.62x49 would be a good match.
    Longer range shooting would prefere the 6.8 or a heavy 5.56 70gn Barnes TSX.
     
  17. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Dirty Dirty South
    Yeah, the rifle in the pic making contact with the pig is the confirming key to the true size of the animal.

    Assuming ~32" OAL, you can lay the rifle length-wise from tip of nose to where tail touches rump a little more than twice.

    Looks like a good solid 6ft to me.

    See, this is a perfect post with pic for this thread. My whole interest in the x39 AR comes from any scenario of this kind where you may have an AR in .223, fairly sufficient for anything man-weight and under, and wish you had a larger, heavier projectile.

    Here in the south, wild pigs are EVERYWHERE and open season all year round. What better purpose to have more than .223 when you could run into one of THESE dudes while hunting Bambi?

    Great story and one of the better hunting pics I've seen.

    Kudos to the x39 AR.
     
  18. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,660
    Location:
    Norra Texas
    In fairness, a 6.8SPC will do everything that the 7.62x39 AR will, trading the ability to shoot cheap Russian ammo (assuming that the 7.62x39 AR is set up for that) for a round that is better suited to the mag well of the AR15 platform. It's a lot easier to make a 6.8SPC AR15 mag work well than it is to make a 7.62x39 AR15 magazine work well.
    Either 6.8SPC or 7.62x39 will do exactly what you want; it's just a matter of decided what factors to weight most heavily.
     
  19. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Dirty Dirty South
    Well, it seems the 6.8 is much closer to the original cartridge the AR was designed around.

    So, for all practical purposes, maybe it's the better way to go.

    Though the x39 is a cheap, fun round for play and, as in this case, serious business, I'm not sure I'd be interested in all the extra tweaking it sounds like it might take to get an AR platform to run it reliably.
     
  20. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,660
    Location:
    Norra Texas
  21. porterdog

    porterdog Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    255
    Location:
    Detroit (Rock City!)
    rbernie, Post 12: great info, well presented, very very interesting. Thanks!
     
  22. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    20,660
    Location:
    Norra Texas
  23. cyclopsshooter

    cyclopsshooter Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,241
    Location:
    The Shadow Knows...
    Great info from rbernie- I run an Olympic upper on an Armalite lower- Had great luck with C-Products 10 round mags after a little feed lip adjustment- the 30 round mag I have chokes if more than 15 rounds are put in it.

    do yourself a favor and get a stainless barrel so you can run the super cheap corrosive stuff :)
     
  24. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    11,269
    Location:
    28078
    That's not a bad idea, but you still need to clean it, especially the bolt and action (which is not made of SS).

    :)
     
  25. Purgatory

    Purgatory Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Dirty Dirty South
    'Preciate all the info, guys. This thread MORE than answered all my queries. -And introduced me to info I didn't even know I didn't know. :D

    You never stop learning, right?

    Thanks again, Fellas.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page