7.62x39 vs 30-30

[Gewehr98]

Broad paint brush.

Looks to me like the AK/SKS fans forget we're all gun people and, North or South, East or West, semi-auto or lever, we as hunters should have the same goal of an ethical humane harvest and all our Rights remain on the line.

This AK/SKS fan also has a .30-30 Winchester 94, .30-30 Remington 788, and used to have a .30-30 Savage 340 before the divorce. (She got it) I use the 7.62x39 AK in the woods simply to torque the Zumbo types. I could use anything in the inventory, truthfully.

 

[SSN Vet]

my $.02....

I shoot and reload for a Marlin 336 in .30-30.

I recently purchased a Saiga sporter in x39 and am setting up to reload for it also.

I'm far from an expert, but here's some thoughts.....

1.) I've not seen load data for bullets above 150 gr. for x39, while .30-30 loads are published for bullets up to 190 gr.

2.) According to Lee's modern re-loading....a 150 gr. x39 can be pushed up to 2,192 fps, while a 150 gr. .30-30 can be pushed up to 2,461 fps

3.) x39 allows you to shoot boat tailed spitzers, realizing a better ballistic coeficient. If you "play by the rules", your .30-30 lever rifle is limited to flat nose, round nose or core loct bullet shapes, which are less aerodynamic. So the x39 will shoot flatter. If you can pay attention to what your doing, you can shoot spitzers from a .30-30 lever......one in the chamber and one in the tube.....NO MORE THAN ONE IN THE TUBE!!! If Hornady ever pulls their head out, reloaders will be able to realize the true potential of the leverolution bullet.

3.) Strictly comparing the cartridges (i.e. both shot from a bolt action), the .30-30 has 2.45 cc of case capacity, while the x39 has 2.03 cc. That's why you can load up the .30-30 with 36 gr. of a slower burning powder like Reloader 15.

4.) If you want to load up 30+ rounds in a magazine and let 'em rip, x39 is the way to go.

5.) Look at a bullet mfg. catalog and I think you will find more options available for .30-30. Finding once fired .30-30 brass is pretty easy to do and I can get it locally. I'm striking out big time finding x39 brass. You can get it on e-bay, but it costs more than I'm willing to pay.....especially when you figure in shipping.

6.) rifles in x39 are very economical. you'll spend more for that pretty lever gun.

7.) economical factory x39 ammo (Wolf and the like) is readilly available. If you don't re-load, your .30-30 is going to cost two to three times as much to shoot.

8.) lot's of people cast their own bullets for .30-30 (though there are some special considerations for shooting lead in a Marlin micro groove barrel). I've read posts from guys who cast for their x39 semi-autos, but there seems to be a lot of concern over lead residue fouling the gas ports and many advise against shooting lead in them for this reason.

So...............why not do what I did.......buy both

 

[R.W.Dale]

2.) According to Lee's modern re-loading....a 150 gr. x39 can be pushed up to 2,192 fps, while a 150 gr. .30-30 can be pushed up to 2,461 fps

No offense but you'll have the primers falling out of your 30-30 cases before you get within 100 FPS of that published velocity in a 20" levergun. I've messed around with 30-30 bolt actions in the past and what I found is that within STD pressures there just isn't any room for improvements within a 30-30 case. To get any kind of real performance out of small cased rounds you need a high pressure rating, 30-30 just doesn't have it.

There's a plethora of information of loading 7.62x39 with 200grn + bullets for subsonic applications

 

[Stachie]

I would take the 7.62x39 over the 30-30 in a street fight.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

I would take the 7.62x39 over the 30-30 in a street fight.

Me too. But I think the application here is hunting.

 

[Old Time Hunter]

krochus, I have loaded 32.5 grains of H4895 behind 160gr BTSP Speers with an COL of 2.7125" and shot them out of both my Glenfield 30A and my '94 AE. Ten round average velocity with chrono set at 12' for the Glenfield was 2525fps, the Winchester averaged 2490fps. Interstingly, the Winchester allowed me to put one in the chamber and one in the magazine, and allowed me to cycle. The Glenfield would not allow this unless I had a COL of less than 2.687", but then I could only get 31.5 grains of powder in the shell. Either way, I have been able to push 150gr FN's close to 2500fps, they just fall off though around the 200 yard mark. All my factory ammo has been within a whisker of the stated velocities, don't know where you all are, but mine have been pretty close.

Of course, the .30-30 is much better than the Ruskie thingy, it is American after all.

 

[JustsayMo]

With a Hornady 150gr JRN over 33 grains of Varget (over a grain below Max) I average 2340 fps out of my 336CB Marlin.

The 170's over IMR 3031 at Max (IMR) published data (<39,000 psi) my 336 CB does nearly 2200 fps.

SAAMI spec lists 42,000 psi ( and 38,000 CUP) as Max for 30-30 so there is still room to go up and not go off the reservation.

For hunting, versatility and ease of reloading, I'll take the thuddy thuddy every time.

 

[doubleg]

I have a 30-30 bolt rifle and its one of the most accurate rifles I have ever shot, and thats with iron sights not a scope. Their both great cartridges I really do not have a preference.

 

[mustanger98]

Gewehr98:

This AK/SKS fan also has a .30-30 Winchester 94, .30-30 Remington 788, and used to have a .30-30 Savage 340 before the divorce. (She got it) I use the 7.62x39 AK in the woods simply to torque the Zumbo types. I could use anything in the inventory, truthfully.

Good to hear you're not being a total snob about this. Personally, I just haven't found an AK that fit me and SKS's are getting kinda pricey in my part of the country. Last I saw, Yugo's new in the crate and still full of cosmoline were priced near $300. I only have $180 in my old Winchester, plus about $70 in the Lyman #2 tang sight. (Plus, I have an extra Williams FP/TK I can bolt on to accuracy test loads and be able to count clicks of windage and elevation.) I agree about the Zumbo types; somebody needs to torque them some. I'm just as likely to deer hunt with a surplus rifle as a .30-30.

SSN Vet:

3.) x39 allows you to shoot boat tailed spitzers, realizing a better ballistic coeficient. If you "play by the rules", your .30-30 lever rifle is limited to flat nose, round nose or core loct bullet shapes, which are less aerodynamic. So the x39 will shoot flatter. If you can pay attention to what your doing, you can shoot spitzers from a .30-30 lever......one in the chamber and one in the tube.....NO MORE THAN ONE IN THE TUBE!!! If Hornady ever pulls their head out, reloaders will be able to realize the true potential of the leverolution bullet.

I have a Savage 340, a crankbolt, in .30-30 and it's a real good shooter. That's the one I shoot spitzers in, but I need to test more loads as it didn't seem to like the 160grainSP's I tried in it that well. I got a fist sized group with them across the bench. Next time I work up some loads, they'll be 150grSP's loaded a mite to the high side.

4.) If you want to load up 30+ rounds in a magazine and let 'em rip, x39 is the way to go.

Yup. That's a fun use for a semi-auto rifle... I do it with a Mini-14 though.

Don't Tread On Me Quote:

I would take the 7.62x39 over the 30-30 in a street fight.

Me too. But I think the application here is hunting.

It's all in what you're used to, what you expect to do, and what you know you have to work with. I'm sure SKS's and AK's do well in street fights against a mob. But I wouldn't feel under-gunned with a lever either in .357magnum or .30-30 if I choose the time and place against smaller sub-groups of that same mob of enemy. But then, I'm liable to choose my M1 Garand or even a Sharps if I had one. But, the application here in this thread is hunting and for the areas I hunt and the deer, and again, I pick and choose my shots, I'm perfectly fine with my .30-30.

Somebody mentioned that LeverEvolution round... if Hornady ever releases those bullets as a component at an offordable price, I'll probably try some. I saw where Marlin now offers a version of the 336 with a longer barrel... 26" I think they said... to take better advantage of the new ammo.

 

[SSN Vet]

No offense but you'll have the primers falling out of your 30-30 cases before you get within 100 FPS of that published velocity in a 20" levergun.

none taken....as I noted in my post.....I'm no expert.

hope to get a chronograph some day.....that would be fun, in a geeky engineer kind of way.

 

[Nhsport]

All I own is a SKS and an ol model 94 so that is what I will compare.
My 94 is a nasty looking cheep chain store model but it has a good bore and a decent trigger and it shoots well even with the crummy factory sights and my crummy eyes . As a matter of fact I have won several cowboy cast bullet matches with it.
My SKS is a unissued yugo with a perfect bore but even after some work it has a poor trigger . I spent good money to put a peep sight on it and it is a fun shooter but due to the trigger it really is hard to shoot.
Hands down my vote goes to the 30/30.
Just wait untill I get a peep mounted on it !