72 hour wait question for Illinois

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Shinbone, Jan 30, 2017.

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  1. Shinbone

    Shinbone Member

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    I have a question about the 72 hour wait period here in Illinois.
    When does it start? I have had a pickup date changed twice on me by a dealer. I ordered a handgun through Gallery Of Guns on 1/20 and paid the deposit. It arrived at the dealer on 1/25. They called me on 1/26 to say it had arrived and asked if would email a copy of my FOID and drivers license. I did that immediately. Then I went in on Saturday 1/28 to look it over, paid the balance and they told me to come back today, 1/30 to pick it up. Now they are saying the 72 hour period will be up tomorrow. But they are closed until Thursday. :fire:
    And on top of that, they don't have any of the newer form 4473's. I'm getting just a little frustrated.
    How are they going to manage this without any 4473's? Can they download them from atf.gov? :mad:
     
  2. BullSlinger

    BullSlinger Member

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    What a mess for you.
    As the old saying goes " Move west young man, move west".
     
  3. Hurricane

    Hurricane Member

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    In Illinois the waiting period typically starts from the time you pay in full for the firearm. The actual wording of the law is somewhat vague but the Illinois State Police determined that it begins from the time the buyer and seller reach an agreement and suggest that the FFL remains consistent with each customer on how they memorialize that agreement.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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  4. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

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    Find a new FFL. The better ones let you send a copy of your FOID in when you order the gun to 'start the clock', so you can get the handgun at the 72 hour mark from the purchase.


    Larry
     
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  5. silversport

    silversport Member

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    some places start the 72 hour clock when you fill out the 4473

    I know you're frustrated but I let a very nice Beretta semi-auto shotgun slip out of my hands because of some place doing to me exactly what you are complaining about and me losing my cool...

    Good luck,

    Bill
     
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  6. UpperAtmosphere

    UpperAtmosphere Member

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    From what I have heard, it is "technically" supposed to start when you make the agreement to purchase the firearm. But attempting to argue with an FFL holder is not frequently a winning proposition.

    Pick it up when you can pick it up and use somebody else in the future.
     
  7. illinoisburt

    illinoisburt Member

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    Every dealer I purchased from over the years in Illinois started it at the time we filled out the 4474. Big box stores, small and large local gun shops were consistent. They would write down the date and time when signing on the form boxes 14 & 15, then when I returned would sign the recertification line with the date and time of pick-up in boxes 22 & 23. Not sure if that was ever an "official" guideline or not, but was the same for probably three dozen transactions over 25 years.
     
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  8. Savage Shooter

    Savage Shooter Member

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    Every ffl I've ever dealt with says it starts at the time you finish filling out the 4473.
     
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  9. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    What the other guys said about filling out the 4473
    That's why there are two signature and date lines on the 4473
     
  10. Bbear

    Bbear Member

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    It's been 15-20 years since I covered Illinois for work. Ran into a small dealer that had a rack full of old Model 99's in pristine shape. Dealer stated I could purchase (I resided in Missouri) but would have to wait. To this day I wish I'd have hung around. But, it cost him a sale. Or, at least delayed the sale on a couple of those rifles.
     
  11. Hurricane

    Hurricane Member

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    The 4473 form can be a good starting point for purchases within a shop, but if you pay for something in full and have it shipped to your local FFL you do not have to start the period once you fill out the form. I have bought several firearms online and had them shipped to my local Gander Mountain. I walk out with them the day they arrive because the waiting period expired while it was being shipped. I fill out the form when I get there and walk out with it. Takes maybe 30 minutes.
     
  12. Shinbone

    Shinbone Member

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    Thanks for all the help. I agree with just taking it easy and waiting until Thursday. What's a few more days. But I most likely will go to a different FFL next time. I did send a copy of everything the Thursday they initially called, but the clock started again when I stopped in on Saturday and paid the balance. Haven't filled out the 4473 yet. That will be on Thursday.
    They can use a downloaded copy from atf.gov. Matter of fact, I downloaded one and printed in out to be ready.
     
  13. TomJ
    • Contributing Member

    TomJ Contributing Member

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    OP,
    I'm in Northern Illinois as well and think I know what LGS you're referring to. What's worked well for me when I order a gun online is going to the LGS the day I order it, filling out the 4473 and paying any balance due. This starts the clock ticking, and given that it usually takes at least 3 days for them to receive the gun I can pick it up as soon as they receive it.
    Tom
     
  14. Steve51

    Steve51 Member

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    The FFL's I use always start the clock when I fill out the 4473. I've only had two guns mail ordered to the FFL. One was a handgun and the three days were already expired when they arrived at the gunshop.
     
  15. grogetr

    grogetr Member

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    I have transfered 2 guns to 2 different dealers. Both times I went in and did the paper work when the guns were to be shipped and by the time they got there the 3 day wait was done. I paid the transfer fees when I got the gun on the day it came in.
     
  16. il.bill

    il.bill Member

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    Two things have to happen to receive a purchased or transferred firearm in Illinois (does not apply to official duty weapons purchased by law enforcement officers following specific procedures) :

    a) there is the 72 hour waiting period for all firearms including handguns, receivers, certain air guns, and pistol grip (no shoulder stock) shotguns (the only exception is 24 hours for qualifying rifles and shotguns). This waiting period would begin at the time the final agreement to purchase the firearm is made between the seller and the buyer. Thus the clock could start before the seller actually receives the firearm for transfer or sale. For example, if I have written documentation to establish the date that the buyer bought the firearm from an online seller, I can choose to use that as the clock starting point. I just have to be consistent with being able to note and show this in my transfer records. However, it is up to each individual FFL dealer to establish and follow his or her own best business practices, and when the clock starts on the waiting period could be determined by an FFL using a more conservative model. Many FFL dealers start the clock when the Form 4473 is filled out and the background check is run through the Illinois State Police (ISP). They have the right to make that decision, even though it is a stricter interpretation than the ISP suggests.

    b) the approval on the Form 4473 for background check must be received from the ISP. I have had one applicant take five (5) days to go from pending to approval and the firearm could simply not be transferred, even though the 72 hour waiting period had been exceeded.

    Bottom line: it is ultimately up to the FFL to decide when the 'clock starts' officially, so it can be even later than when the final agreement to purchase is done.

    Here is a link to a firearm transfer FAQ regarding waiting periods from the ISP: https://www.ispffl.com/Public/FAQ.aspx that references Illinois law, 720 ILCS 5/24-3.
     
  17. Duster340

    Duster340 Member

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    Live in IL. Bought a fair number of pistols over last few years. Always had to wait 72 hrs from the time I fill out the paper work and paid for the pistols. Never had the date pushed back or delayed.
     
  18. cat_IT_guy

    cat_IT_guy Member

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    Buying in gun shop, usually it's do the paperwork and come back for the gun. When buying on line and having shipped to local FFL, I've had mixed experience. One FFL, that I no longer use, waited until he received the gun, then had me do paperwork, then Come back later to take possession. My current preferred FFL does paperwork and take home same day once he has the gun (figuring the shipping time is sufficient for cool down).
     
  19. SeanSw

    SeanSw Member

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    In my experience it's also a literal 72 hour wait from the time I fill out the paperwork. My last retail purchase even included a print out of the time I handed in my paperwork and the earliest acceptable time to return and pick up the firearm. Enough people assumed that 72 hours was a generic 3 day or 3 night waiting period that the store started a new policy of creating time sheets for their customers to take home.
     
  20. ponchh

    ponchh Member

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    In the free states like mine I go into store fill out some paper work, they make a phone call, 5 minutes later I pay for the gun and walk out the door with my new gun in hand. That's how it should be for all. With private sells you can skip the paper and the call. I'm kinda on the fence with that. When I have sold any guns in the past I get a name and drivers license so I can show where it went.
     
  21. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    There is also an issue in Illinois with the way the new ATF Form has been created. You actually have to sign the form twice and date it. The first date is allegedly when you agree to buy the firearm and the nics check is made. The second date is when you actually pick it up. There is some question about whether it is legal to sign both lines at the same time but date one of them three days earlier. I am not surprised that an FFL might choose to err on the side of caution and require the buyer to show up twice to pick up the gun.
     
  22. il.bill

    il.bill Member

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    It is my understanding, after completing my final on-site 01FFL interview with a couple of folks from the BATFE, that the only question about legality in what you describe is whether or not you get caught committing a federal felony in doing it.

    I am not a lawyer, but I would not encourage anyone to lie on the form 4473, including falsely dating one of the signatures "three days earlier".

    Where is there a difference between the new 4473 that has been required for use since mid January of 2017 and the previous 4473 regarding the transferee signature parts? Am I missing something here?
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  23. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    Boy am I glad I live in a free state! You guys have to jump through some crazy hoops for sure. Probably never has made a positive impact on preventing a crime either.:fire:
     
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