7mm-08: Across the board as good as 30-06?

[VThillman]

In looking at the history of cartridges, 7.62 NATO was designed to equal the ballistics of the 30-06 military cartridge, but do so in a shorter, lighter case and rifle in order to increase logistical efficiencies. It was found that a shorter case and slightly lighter M80 147 gr. bullet at 2733 fps could essentially duplicate the effectiveness of the ealier 150 gr. M2 Ball at 2800 muzzle fps.
Penetration of the 150 gr 30 cal projectile at 2800 was very good having shown the ability to penetrate multiple soldiers with one shot, period training video demonstrates M2 Ball penetrating a 10" live oak and a German steel helmet.
Enter 7mm-08 Remington. Designed in 1980, this cartridge typically sports a 140 gr. projectile at 2800 FPS. In other words, 10 gr. lighter but producing equal velocity to M2 Ball. However 7mm-08 has 10% higher sectional density, and 9% greater ballistic coefficient comparing 140gr. 7mm to 150 gr. 30 cal. This would lead to increased penetration especially at range.
When you combine these factors with the logistical advantages of smaller, lighter ammo, and smaller lighter rifles, I have to wonder: For most or all lower 48 sporting uses, is 7mm-08 Remington an across the board replacement for the 30-06?
With the devastating reliable penetration of today's modern solid expanding bullets such as the TTSX in 150gr. or 160 gr. TSX would 7mm-08 be a reasonable replacement for 30-06 in Alaska?

No. Nor anywhere else. It's the big end of your board that sinks you.

 

[mshootnit]

Heres another ballistics comparison. 139gr. 7mm-08, and 165gr. 30-06.
7mm-08 139 gr. SST 2850 fps muzzle. 1.5 sight height, 200 yd zero. .486 BC .246 SD
@300 yd. Velocity 2306 fps, 1654 ft lb -7.4" drop.

30-06 165 gr. 2850 fps muzzle. 1.5 sight height, 200 yd zero. .447 BC .248 SD
@300 yd. Velocity 2262 fps, 1875 ft lb -7.5" drop.

 

[natman]

There's a lot of overlap. No deer or antelope is going to be able to tell the difference. The 30-06 does have a slight advantage on the heavy stuff, so if you're shooting something that is a bit of a stretch for the 30-06, like big bears, it's even a bigger stretch for the 7mm-08. IMO stretching a cartridge is not a good idea against dangerous game.

No, I wouldn't take a 7mm-08 to Alaska as my do everything rifle, no matter what it was loaded with.

 

[Haxby]

Enter 7mm-08 Remington. Designed in 1980...

Well, it was designed in about 1890. It was just 6mm longer then.

...there are about 250 cartridges that all fall into the same category...

Oh, come on. I just spent almost 2 full minutes researching this, and I only came up with 49.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I've got both, killed a lot of deer with both.
Difference is the "platform " or rifle they're in.
My little Rem Mod-7, in 7mm08 is a darling. Its 6" shorter than my Colt LtRifle '06. However, the Colt is hands down more accurate (3/4moa vs 2moa), and with a 180gr bullet going the same speed as a 150gr from the 7-08, has just a bit more "horse power". For Moose or bear, I'd go with the '06; deer or elk, I like the compact little Remington. Both weigh ~7lbs, but the 24" bbl of the '06 gives it a bit more punch. Ok where/when it's needed.
Pick the rifle, then pick the cartridge.
I own 4 .30/06, and a 7mm-08. I don't own a .308!, but I do have 3 .30/30's, a 300RUM, and a .300BO, and a .30Carbine... Different niches, different rifles...

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Have you ever killed game with either before citing the cartridge specs and making this assertion? I'd be interested in hearing your experience regarding the effectiveness of the 7-08 with 140-160grn bullets on elk or black bear compared to 180-220grn bullets in the 30-06?

Or is that not part of the board you read across?

I'm oft one to tout the above sentiment such there are many "right answers" to the same question, but when the only consideration you made is the killing of helmets and pine boards, not of larger game animals, I think the assertion the 7-08 is equal across the board is pretty bold.

ETA: I forgot about the Alaska part - I took a caribou on the Canadian side with a 7-08, grossly underestimated the body size when I took it up with me. The colleague who was playing "guide" for me was none too impressed when I called him out of camp to help me track it. It was hit well enough, but it made tracks a long ways, and bleeding from only one hole doesn't do the hunter any favors.

Interesting. I have shot many caribou with the 30-06 and they where always one shot instant kills. With a full bullet pass though at up to 300 yards.

 

[someguy2800]

Oh, come on. I just spent almost 2 full minutes researching this, and I only came up with 49.

Now start with wildcats and obsolete cartridges! .30-338, .338/30, 309 jdj, 7mm bullberry, 303/270, etc... it's almost infinite, and most of them pointless

 

[Elkins45]

Since we're considering "across the board" then 06 wins due to versatility. Sometimes there's just no substitute for momentum, and a big ol' 220 grain 30 caliber RN makes more of it than anything you can find to push down a 7mm bore.

If we're just talking shooting deer then the difference is slight enough that a nice short action rifle could tip my scales in favor of the 7-08.

 

[biggameballs]

In looking at the history of cartridges, 7.62 NATO was designed to equal the ballistics of the 30-06 military cartridge, but do so in a shorter, lighter case and rifle in order to increase logistical efficiencies. It was found that a shorter case and slightly lighter M80 147 gr. bullet at 2733 fps could essentially duplicate the effectiveness of the ealier 150 gr. M2 Ball at 2800 muzzle fps.
Penetration of the 150 gr 30 cal projectile at 2800 was very good having shown the ability to penetrate multiple soldiers with one shot, period training video demonstrates M2 Ball penetrating a 10" live oak and a German steel helmet.
Enter 7mm-08 Remington. Designed in 1980, this cartridge typically sports a 140 gr. projectile at 2800 FPS. In other words, 10 gr. lighter but producing equal velocity to M2 Ball. However 7mm-08 has 10% higher sectional density, and 9% greater ballistic coefficient comparing 140gr. 7mm to 150 gr. 30 cal. This would lead to increased penetration especially at range.
When you combine these factors with the logistical advantages of smaller, lighter ammo, and smaller lighter rifles, I have to wonder: For most or all lower 48 sporting uses, is 7mm-08 Remington an across the board replacement for the 30-06?
With the devastating reliable penetration of today's modern solid expanding bullets such as the TTSX in 150gr. or 160 gr. TSX would 7mm-08 be a reasonable replacement for 30-06 in Alaska?

I often wonder why people spend so much time debating differnt calibers and numbers on paper. You shoot anything with a high power rifle and hit it where you're supposed to and it's going to die. Projectile choice is much more important then caliber. The most important thing is being able to shoot.

 

[LoonWulf]

^ cause we can, gives us something to argue about.

 

[Varminterror]

Interesting. I have shot many caribou with the 30-06 and they where always one shot instant kills. With a full bullet pass though at up to 300 yards.

I've been back to Canada, chasing caribou, after what I considered to be a near failure by the 7-08, but not with the 30-06. Your experience confirms my expectation, however. As I said before, despite the advantage for SD for the 7mm bullet, there's a tangible difference between 2200-2500ft.lbs. and 2800-3000ft.lbs. It's close, but there ARE game species out there which will test that difference. I believe caribou to be one of those species. I've taken elk with both 30-06 and 7-08, and given the choice (which I get every couple of years), I don't reach for the 7-08.

For many, many applications, the two are interchangeable, but there does come a morning where Milo fails to pick up the calf. Equally, going the other direction, there are game animals where the 30-06 really does become "too big," while the 7-08 remains to shine.

Mind you, all of this is said with the 7-08 being one of, if not my favorite centerfire rifle cartridges of all time.

 

[Llama Bob]

I believe caribou to be one of those species. I've taken elk with both 30-06 and 7-08, and given the choice (which I get every couple of years), I don't reach for the 7-08.

I think that's reasonable. The 7mm-08 can be loaded with heavy projectiles to go after elk (if your barrel is twisted for it) but it's not a first choice.

 

[Sarge7402]

One thing no one has brought up is versatility. I've got a $20 adapter that allows me to shoot any .32 caliber round out of my 30-'06. (.32 S&W up thru the .327 Magnum. I've also got a navy sleeve that allows me to fire safely .308 ammo in either of my two 30-'06's.