7mm-08 vs 7x57

[ExAgoradzo]

I understand these are relatively similar cartridges.
Why did you choose what you did even if it is merely for availability?

If you have/had both did you like one better?

Thanks,
Greg

 

[Sav .250]

From reading about Africa, it`s killed many elephants. Don`t own one but if it can drop an animal as big as that , it`gets my vote.

 

[WYOMan]

Seems to come down to a short action vs. long action.

 

[Reloadron]

While I do not load and shoot the 7X57 Mauser I do load and shoot the 7-08 Remington. The 7-08 Remington is a spawn of the .308 Winchester cartridge being a .308 unmodified Winchester case necked down to 7mm. While there are several factory bullet weights loaded today the initial offerings from Remington were only a 120 and 140 grain bullet I believe.

The case capacity of the 7-08 is slightly less than the 7X57 giving a slight edge to the 7X57 with heavier bullets but I doubt much the edge to worry about. Based on shooting from a 24" barrel bolt gun. That is my guess anyway and I have no idea how factual it is.

I see hand loading as the most viable means of getting the most out of either cartridge and overall see them more a six of one half dozen of the other scenario. There are factory loadings for both cartridges available off the shelf in the US so the 7X57 has plenty of availability.

As for a cartridge for an Elephant? Not in my book least I become the squishy stuff between the elephant's toes. Both cartridges are suitable for most N. American game sans the really large game and no way would I use it on an elephant.

I actually chambered a M1 Garand in the 7-08 cartridge and it has done quite well.

Ron

 

[MCgunner]

I understand these are relatively similar cartridges.
Why did you choose what you did even if it is merely for availability?

Well, I mean, why not? Does the .30-06 kill a deer any deader...I mean, really? I had a 1916 Spanish Mauser for a while, cool gun, but only accurate with 175 grain round nose due to the fast twist. A 7x57 with a slower twist and 140s is about as good as deer huntin' gets. I own other calibers up to 7mm Rem Mag. The little 7s are mild on the shoulder and have all the range and power one needs for deer and can handle up to elk in the woods, limited to 250 yards, maybe.

People choose what they like, too, have a yen for. I mean, not everyone wants a cookie cutter .30-06 for everything. A caliber choice doesn't have to meet some logical goal in performance or something, can be just because. I have a .257 Roberts that has killed dozens of deer. I'm not sure I ever needed any more, frankly. It's a 7x57 necked to .257". But, I like rifles, own others. My most ubiquitous caliber is .308. I really like the .308, but if I couldn't have found that gun that day in .308 and could have in 7-08, I'd own it in 7-08. Just as capable, better ballistic coefficients. .260 (6.5mm) ain't bad, either, even better BCs than 7mm.

 

[MCgunner]

BTW, "Kilimanjaro" Bell killed lots of elephants with the .275 Rigby (7x57 Mauser). The gun didn't kill those elephants, HE did. He used a heavy solid and put it in the brain. I put down hogs all the time with a .22LR 1 5/8" mini revolver, one shot to the head. Ain't bounced off, yet. I wouldn't hunt with a .22, but I could put down a hog outside the trap with a .22 rifle so long as I could sight his head.

 

[.333 Nitro Express]

7x57 can go up to 175gr without pushing the bullet too far inside the case, because of its longer neck (big whoop, say some, but I find it a good thing, so bully for me).

7/08 fits in a short action (big whoop, in my book, but some see it as a great value, so bully for them).

Get'em both.

 

[Reloadron]

Hog no problem, elephant for me, big problem!

Now I don't know how much truth there is to this but....

In Bell's day, elephant still roamed open grass lands, in huge numbers, unafraid
of distant hunters. Bell portered with him, a collapsible, elevated, shooting
stand. High enough so that he could see over the tall elephant grass, he could
take carefully aimed shots from far enough away not to spook the herd..somewhat
like the old buffalo hunters did in N America.

He was probably one of the finest rifle shots that EVER lived..with an intimate
knowledge of elephant anatomy that enabled him to hit the brain from whatever
angle he shot.

Those conditions are NOT found now!! Elephant are much warier and have taken to
thick cover. The ones left are generally of a larger type than the plains
elephant he hunted then.

It is on record that, quite literally, SCORES of intrepid (Stupid) hunters have
been killed by elephant, while trying to emulate Bell's feats. It STILL happens
on an almost annual basis.

The 7mm, 303 British, 30-06..even the 375 H&H Magnum are NOT gun enough to go
into bush after elephant, rhino, hippo or Cape Buffalo. Too many men have been
killed trying to prove otherwise!

Some Professional Hunters and Game Control Officers feel that the .577 Nitro
Express is barely adequate for today's conditions.

The above quote was taken from here.

Now personally and just me I see "Kilimanjaro" Bell who used a Mauser actioned Rigby 275 Express (7 x 57 Mauser) to take elephants as a truly great shot and rifleman. Me? Nope, no way, not today, tomorrow or any day.

However, in trying to stay on target with the original post I am a pretty big fan of 7mm bullets in general. Just a fascination with their accuracy. Would like to find an older Remington 700 BDL action to build up in a 7X57 and try some assorted hand loads. I like the 7-08 and really enjoy a 7mm Rem Mag I have. I only mention the Remington BDL action because I am tooled up to work on them from years ago.

Ron

 

[ExAgoradzo]

The question for me isn't at all decided on a 'long' action or 'short' action: I don't mean to sound dismissive but does pulling the bolt back a bit more ruin anyone's day???

Now, if we were talking out of an AR-10 style rifle, now I get it. But then, I don't own any AR style gun...yet.

But I am enjoying reading this discussion, that is why I come on THR!
Thanks,
Greg

 

[.333 Nitro Express]

Agoradzo, my point exactly.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but when it comes to bolt-action rifles for big game, I've never understood the true benefit of a short action, other than being able to say how wonderfully efficient one's rifle is.

<ducks>

 

[jmr40]

The 7X57 was the 1st modern chambering and has proven capable of taking every animal on the planet.

The US military lengthened the 7X57 and opened it up to 7.62mm to create the 30-06.

The 30-06 was shortened to create the 308

The 308 was necked down to 7mm to create the 7-08, effectively re inventing the original 7X57.

What goes around comes around.

With factroy loads the 7-08 is the better round, but with good handloads the 7X57 will still outperform it. As stated it really comes down to short action vs long action. And how nostalgic you are about your chambering choices.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

<ducks>

HaHa! I should have written that as well!!!
Greg

 

[ExAgoradzo]

With factroy loads the 7-08 is the better round, but with good handloads the 7X57 will still outperform it. As stated it really comes down to short action vs long action. And how nostalgic you are about your chambering choices.

Ah! That's the answer I was looking for! That and the 'ready availability' of factory ammo... Well, I bought my 45-70 because of history passing over 'more powerful' and 'better' rounds for a sense of history...

Love this discussion!

Greg

 

[FiveInADime]

I think the 7mm-08 Rem. is cooler looking with long bullets in it. Looks X-treme. Like, "Let's go get some @#$!ing Mountain Dew!" X-treme. It's really good for Mall Ninja/Urban "Snipers". 7x57 Mauser? PSHH... Sounds like something my grandpa keeps in his underwear drawer. Probably can't get a Tactical Super-Sniper X-treme rifle in 7x57 Mauser with tactical rails, a 40-power scope, and 2 3" sunshades for extra-X-tremeness.

 

[jmr40]

I've never understood the true benefit of a short action, other than being able to say how wonderfully efficient one's rifle is.

Several benefits.

#1
You CAN build a lighter rifle. Unfotunately most manufacturers don't really take advantage of this and with most manufacturers the difference is small. But a few manufacturers who have figured it out it is possible to build a 308 a full pound lighter than a 30-06. Same with a 7-08 vs a 270 or 280.

#2
Short actions chamberings and rifles are simply more accurate. The 300 WSM has proven to be more accurate than a 300 win mag. Same with all the short action chamberings vs similar, but longer cartridges.

#3
The more efficient cases are a big part of the reason for enhanced accuracy since the powder burns more consistently. They also need less powder to get the same speeds which reduces recoil. A 300 WSM will give 99% of a 300 win mags speed, but with only 90% of the recoil.

 

[SaxonPig]

The 7-08 will get it done.

The 7x57 will get it done with panache.

 

[RPRNY]

Shooting Times had an article this month on hand loading for 7x57 vs 7mm-08. A great point is made above that the 30-06 evolved from the 7x57 and in turn gave rise to the .308 which has itself born the 7mm-08. The end result is that hand loaded in modern rifles in the mid-weight bullet range (which concerns 90% of shooters), it is sechs auf ein and half a dozen of another. Although Saxon Pig sums it up rather well ;-)

 

[DM~]

Bell was a BIG TIME poacher! At a time whern you could literally walk right up and shoot an elephant exactly where you wanted... He was also an amazing rifle shot and it didn't much matter what round he used, for THAT reason!

I hunted with a 7x57 for a time, i shot numerous caribou using Speer 175 mag tips. It worked perfectly for me...

Today i could buy a 7-08 and be quite happy using it for the rest of my life, on deer and blk. bear!

DM

 

[readyeddy]

His name was Walter D.M. Bell, nicknamed "Karamojo" Bell.

 

[browningguy]

I shoot a 7x57 with mostly with 173 gr. SPCE bullets when shooting factory loads, it can shoot through just about anything in North America, and it does it with very little recoil/noise/muzzle blast. It is significantly better than a 7mm-08 with heavy bullets which is what I prefer. The 162 SST and Barnes 175's are really fine hunting bullets for those of us that reload.

 

[Swampman]

7mm Mauser: Because they never built a military Mauser in 7mm/08...

 

[Abel]

Shooting Times had an article this month on hand loading for 7x57 vs 7mm-08. A great point is made above that the 30-06 evolved from the 7x57 and in turn gave rise to the .308 which has itself born the 7mm-08.

I am fairly certain that the 300 Savage gave birth to the 308, not the 30-o6. The 308 then replaced the 'o6. Maybe that's what you meant by "gave rise"?

 

[30Cal]

I went with the Mauser. Ammo availability (1985 if that matters).

 

[R.W.Dale]

I've owned and shot both and there is one critical difference.

Being a Mauser military chambering originally its been my experience that chamber dimensions for 7x57 even in commercial guns is quite a bit looser than ammunition dimensions. This in my experience causes 7x57 to be a bit of a brass mangler unless forming cases from something else for your specific rifle (neck clearance is still very generous).

7-08 being thoroughly modern with no 19th century military baggage has ammunition dimensions much closer to chamber dimensions and as a result works brass much much less.

This mattered so much to me I sold this exquisite gold grade interarms in 7x57






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[R.W.Dale]

I am fairly certain that the 300 Savage gave birth to the 308, not the 30-o6. The 308 then replaced the 'o6. Maybe that's what you meant by "gave rise"?

Depending on what source you read 7x57 or 7.65 Mauser were the very first rounds to feature the ubiquitous .473" case head.

The case that o6, 270,300,308 are all based on




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