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7x57 vs. 7-08

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Kentucky_Rifleman, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. Kentucky_Rifleman

    Kentucky_Rifleman Member

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    I'm a simple guy. I like the older classic cartridges. Can anyone explain why the 7mm-08 is gaining popularity while the 7x57 Mauser seems to be losing ground? I'm a huge fan of the 7x57, and I can load faster for the Mauser than I can for the 08 incarnation. Aside from the availability of surplus .308 brass for reforming, what gives? I don't get it. Worse yet, every gun maker going seems to be cranking out the 08 rifles, but no one is making a domestic 7x57 bolt gun. This aggravates me.

    KR
     
  2. Mr_Pale_Horse

    Mr_Pale_Horse Member

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    but you can't buy it. American ammo makers will not load it to its potential (or the 8x57 for that matter).
     
  3. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Or anything else "metric" for that matter

    One mark I've discovered against 7x57 is that even in commercial guns chambers seem to be rather loose resulting in shorter brass life.

    And then there's the infatuation with the concept of "short action" cartridges and guns
     
  4. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    There's your problem. The 7mm-08 is on the heels of the factory loaded 7x57mm, but only because of the poor loading, which in turn makes the venerable, old 7mmMauser less popular. The best option for a cartridge that is where the 7x57mm really should be is the .280Rem. and unfortunately there is limited availability for that chambering as well. :banghead:
     
  5. Kentucky_Rifleman

    Kentucky_Rifleman Member

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    Do that few people really reload? I learned reloading and shooting together from my Dad. The two were always inseparable to me. Dad picked new calibers based on what he could reload them to do and how difficult components were to come by. When I started shooting centerfire rifles and pistols, Dad taught me how to reload at the same time, so I started reloading around age 9 or 10. Mind you, he checked my work and I worked at the same reloading bench as he did so he could keep an eye on me.

    I guess I always think about what a cartridge is capable of, not what the factories load them to do.

    That said, the lack of American factory bolt actions in 7x57 or 8x57 still aggravates me. Those two and the .222 are my favorite cartridges, and all of them are going the way of the dodo, and there's no good reason for it.

    KR
     
  6. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Depends upon whom you ask...here at THR plenty of people handload...back in the "real world" there are few reloaders.

    :)
     
  7. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    I don't reload and I don't know anyone who reloads either. I have owned(and still do) plenty of 7x57,7mm-08 as well as .280 Remington. I love them all but if pushed to pick a favorite it would be the 7x57 hands down. Under 200 yards you can't tell the difference.
     
  8. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    In some guns, a short action makes sense. In a Model 70 Featherweight, I figure the 7mm-08 is just about the perfectly-balanced cartridge.

    One way or another, the x57mm case has never been overly popular in the US. After WW II, many a surplus Mauser was rebarreled, or even just reamed out to 8mm-06.
     
  9. Kentucky_Rifleman

    Kentucky_Rifleman Member

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    Jimmy Ray, can we negotiate a price on that old useless brass you're accumulating? :D

    KR
     
  10. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    I don't save my brass since neither I nor any of my friends reload(no accumulated brass). I have been considering learning to reload for my .257 Roberts Mauser 98. If I do I may have a use for those 7x57 cases.
     
  11. Kentucky_Rifleman

    Kentucky_Rifleman Member

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    I can see the practicality of the 8-06. You ream the chamber of a surplus rifle and have access to a rifle that's easy to find brass for AND has more pizazz than the original. I suppose one could ream an old Mauser to 7-06 (call it 280 if you like), but the older Mauser actions might get bad indigestion on the beefier 06 loads.

    On a similar footnote, does anyone know if Ruger ever brought out the M77 in 8x57? I didn't know they'd offered it in 7x57 until I stumbled on one a couple of weeks back. I sure do like the M77 in 7x57, and would love to add the big brother to my little collection.

    KR
     
  12. Kentucky_Rifleman

    Kentucky_Rifleman Member

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    Sure, sure. NOW you up and join the reloading fraternity. :cuss:

    KR
     
  13. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    Haven't done it YET but I didn't realize just how hard it was to find a good selection of factory .257 Bob ammo. Great selection for the 7x57 though!
     
  14. homers

    homers Member

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    I love my Ruger M77 with tang safety in 7x57 (I must thank my dad for buying it as my first deer gun way back when I was 16).
     
  15. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I believe the big advantage of the 7x57 is its ability to chamber and stabilize extremely long bullets up to 190 grains. American shooters have been moving away from these to smaller, faster rounds. So there's no longer much advantage to the old 7x57
     
  16. GMFWoodchuck

    GMFWoodchuck member

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    The reasoning behind the sucess (and preference from a manufacturer standpoint) of the 7mm-08 over the 7X57 is a simple one. All 7mm-08s can be loaded to modern day standards. The same can't be said for the 7x57. It's the reason the 450 marlin came into existence. Similar sized cartridge with the similar capacity as the 45-70 but loaded to modern day pressures. But the effect wasn't that great with the 450 only because the 45-70 was no snuff to begin with and kicked enough as it was. But the answer is the same.
     
  17. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    It is unfortunate the 7x57 is fading from existence in America and it is sad to say but it is because surplus rifles are popular and they cannot take the loadings that the 7x57 should be loaded at to achieve its potential. I like the 7x57 too and I really dont like the 7mm-08 for the only reason that it will displace the 7x57. It is because it is a newer cartridge without a serious disadvantage like having a bunch of weaker Spanish mausers floating around to make ammo manufacturers load it down to those old levels to keep the lawyers away from them.
     
  18. Mr_Pale_Horse

    Mr_Pale_Horse Member

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    Sellier & Bellot (Czech Republic) make 9 different loadings of the 7x57. The cartridge will not die any time soon.
     
  19. berettashotgun

    berettashotgun Member

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    Kentucky_Rifleman - you have received some answers to your question. Great replies.

    A: The 7x57 is old school and wasn't in use very much with the American public for decades as was the 30-06. The known qualities of the old workhorse -06 are ingrained in almost every American living.

    B: The buying public has it's favorites and the companies providing firearms to those people want to sell product.

    C: Although the mauser round is better than the 7mm-08, this quality only exists in it's hybrid form - a re-loaded round. Off the shelf is no better and is also much harder for the majority of rifle owners to locate. It is a possibility the web might provide a resurgence for the mauser - but don't hold your breath.
     
  20. Kentucky_Rifleman

    Kentucky_Rifleman Member

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    I hadn't considered the short action argument, but I can see that. It's not as important to me personally, but I know some shooters just love the short action.

    Since I reload, I don't typically think in terms of factory ammo. I almost always buy components and load my own stuff coming out of the gate, but the limp-load 7x57 ammo isn't as likely to blow up the older actions of some of the surplus rifles.

    These things aside, I wonder why none of the factories ever offered 7x57 +P or some such distinction as they've done with other venerable underloaded cartridges like the .38 Special or the 9x19?

    On a happier note, I went to my in-laws over the weekend and tried out my recently acquired M77 in 7x57, and it was very satisfactory. The in-laws live in Johnson County, near West Virginia, and my father-in-law and I haunt about a local pawn/gun shop "Poor Boys." When we dropped in after shooting, I happened upon 4 boxes of PMC 7x57 factory ammo. Under all the dust the boxes were labeled 13.00. :what: I bought all 4 boxes.

    I might get to like being the only guy I know shooting the Mauser...
     
  21. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    IME 7x57mm isn't super expensive, I usually see it for about $20.00/20, in the neighborhood of most other "deer capable" centerfire cartridges (.30-06, et al). That said, I wouldn't complain about $13.00/20 either.

    :)
     
  22. SaxonPig

    SaxonPig Member

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    IMO the 7x57 is one of the best cartridge designs ever produced. I think that I currently have 3 and have owned more over the years including one full-blown custom job built in 7x57.

    Short action rifles are all the rage (note the proliferation of "short magnums" out there) and this may explain why the 7-08 is rising in popularity.

    American ammo is not loaded as hot as European fodder. I have some German ammo made in 1970 that launches a 139 grain BT at an amazingly consistent 2,925 FPS (no more than 5 FPS variance). Loading your own is the way bring out the potential of this round.

    Here are my 7s. Such a classic caliber deserves a classic platform.


    standard.jpg


    standard.jpg


    standard.jpg
     
  23. Kentucky_Rifleman

    Kentucky_Rifleman Member

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    SaxonPig,

    How do I find my way into your last will and testament? Would you like an adopted son? Nephew? I don't eat much. Really.

    KR
     
  24. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Certainly one of the most efficient/best balanced.

    As one might expect, given it's dimensions, I've found that it's performance is smack dab in the middle between the 7mm-08 and .280 Rem.

    It would be my choice cartridge to build a nice custom sporter on a Mauser action.

    However, for buying a practical, factory hunting rifle, I would opt for neither the 7mm-8 or the 7x57. I would go .280, and did for my sister. It outperforms both of the smaller cartridges, but still with very tolerable recoil.
     
  25. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    I too like the 7x57mm, but completely agree with the above statement. There is a reason the .280Rem. is the most sought after custom cartridge chambering requested.

    :)
     
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