Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

91 year old WW2 Vet beaten viciously for car.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Kali Endgame, May 12, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Kali Endgame

    Kali Endgame member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Messages:
    516
    Location:
    In a constant state of confusion.
    Here is the link. Warning Disturbing.

    At a time when there are so few of those old, brave warriors left, this makes me sick. What really got to me was the people who just stood around and did nothing.

    To keep this gun related. My question is: due to the mans advanced age and frailty, is using a gun legal to defend the Vet? Although, the man only used his fists, is this a situation warranting the use of a gun?
     
  2. Erebus

    Erebus Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,374
    Location:
    North Central MA
    Absolutely disgusting. I can't believe that croud of people just let that guy beat him like that.
     
  3. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,502
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    That's because as a society we have been coached to stand by call 911 don't get involved because doing so is likely to jsut make the situation worse and complicate things, and then be a good witness. Personally I am more willing to complicate things for the police then to be a good witness at a murder, rape, etc trial. No one should play cop, but there are times when common decency come into play and frankly if I stood by and watched an old man be beaten half to death or a woman rapped I couldn't look at myself in the mirror, but I damn sure could after killing the bastard.
     
  4. gyp_c2

    gyp_c2 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    hmmm...

    ...maybe they were all in on it...like a pack...
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    Sodom on the Potomac
    It is reprehensible that WE as a society allow this to happen. I am sick about this and all of the other violent crime that is allowed to go on in our country un-checked and even apologized for by our school system, politicians, and feel good social programs that look to make excuses for these criminals and apply light sentences if they are even caught. I am just as guilty here, being a “good” person who moved away from NYC to a gated community in VA where I won’t have to have my family exposed to this type of crime, rather than stay and try to clean it up.

    The problem seems almost insurmountable to me though. The way I see it, as long as we have a huge welfare state that grows up to believe that they are owed something for nothing, and get violent when they don’t get it, we will never break the cycle of this cancer in our country. It seems that violence is excused everywhere now in our inner cities. As if it’s just another inconvenient fact of life that we all must now live with. It seems to me that our courts often plea bargain these crimes down. It also seems to me that a huge proportion of crime is committed over and over again by the same criminals.

    I am not a LEO and perhaps I have no idea what I’m talking about, but perhaps, WE should be taking to the streets in peaceful demonstrations in all of our inner cities and demand that crime be punished so extremely that it be almost eradicated.

    I say we ZUMBO crime. We need to make every elected politician, judge, district attorney, and police department know we are fed up with these animals roaming free and preying on our citizens.

    Just a thought, but if WE, as a society cannot protect our weakest among us, but rather allow them to fall prey to vicious predators, then WE deserve no less than what we have. Crime will continue to encroach on our lives, and we’ll build bigger walls and carry more ammo. This must end, or surely it will end us.


    mk
     
  6. Isildur

    Isildur Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Germany
    These incidents are a mirror, painfully reminding us of the society we live in. I absolutely agree that this violence was enabled by those folks advocating "Do nothing", "There are professionals in this country, you don't need to get involved"-**** it! Those professionals who might be able to respond better than I are not there!

    In my opinion just complaining leads nowhere. Organizing a protest march is a good thing but hey, what's about using Web 2.0? There are thousands of little banners "against racism", "against guns" etc. why not initiate something like that in favor of a free, self-defending society? We could place it in signatures, on our hompages....
     
  7. TCB in TN

    TCB in TN Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    Middle, TN
    That makes me sick, that is just as bad, maybe even worse than the video of the girl beat by that PO in Chicago. The individual who beat that old man is a dangerous animal, and as such should either be permanently caged or put down because he certainly should not be on the streets.
     
  8. Crunker1337

    Crunker1337 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,168
    Brought a tear to my eye.

    What's even more disgusting than the fact that that criminal beat a 91-year-old was that five people stood around and watched. If all of them jumped in I'm sure they could have given the gangster what he deserved.

    I hope the police catch him.
     
  9. The Unknown User

    The Unknown User Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    712
    Actually, it's an observable psychological effect aptly named the "bystander effect." All it takes is one person to break it, however. It happens because people learn the "correct" way to respond to a situation by watching others. So, when you present a large group of people with a situation they've never been in before, they don't know what to do. So they all look to each other for signs of how to behave, and see everyone else standing there going "What?" It makes it easier to oppose normative social influence once one person goes against it.

    So, if you're ever in a stressful situation like that, make sure you step out of line and become the "leader" of the group.
     
  10. Web

    Web Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2003
    Messages:
    48
    But for most people physical violence plays no part in their day-to-day lives. How are they going to be the first to step into that situation and face getting punched by this guy themselves?
     
  11. Ghengis Kahn

    Ghengis Kahn Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    the crowd should have dragged the guy off the old man and beat him to death.

    I can't believe that some people would even consider that over-the-top, i mean, if i'm standing there and some guy tries to pick a fight with me i'm going to "non-THR criminal action removed by Mod". "proportional response" is for "vulgar non-THR term removed by Mod".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2007
  12. obxned

    obxned Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,490
    Location:
    OBX, NC
    This is a good example of why decent people need to be armed. Sometimes being a good witness is just not good enough!

    I would have no faith in the other bystanders helping if I intervened, and I'm too old and smart to try to fight a younger thug who probably has a knife or gun or whatever on him, particularly with AIDS being a possibility. That leaves just one reasonable, moral thing to do.
     
  13. Biker

    Biker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,085
    Location:
    Idaho
    I'm a big time MOB type of guy, but I will not sit and watch while the old, infirm, young, women or animals are physically abused. It triggers something in me that I can't control and don't really want to. I get downright primal. Never could stand a bully.

    Biker
     
  14. TheOld Man

    TheOld Man Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Rural SW Washington State
    The problem is that, in many jurisdictions, if you step in to help, you can be charged with Assault against the perp. PLUS, the perp and/or their families can sue you into bankruptcy.:banghead:
     
  15. hankdatank1362

    hankdatank1362 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,378
    Location:
    Myrtle Beach
    Someone on this board a while back referred to a moment of anger he had as a "Hulk smash!" (i.e. the comic book character) kind of moment.

    I think seeing something like this would provoke a "hulk smash" moment from myself. I wouldn't even touch my gun, unless it turns out the BG had a knife or a gun himself. I'd just do my honest best to ruin his life (can't say kill here) with my bare hands.
     
  16. Biker

    Biker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,085
    Location:
    Idaho
    True enough, Old Man, but sometimes you just have to do the Right Thing and worry about the ass-whuppin' later.
    Least, that's the way I see things.

    Biker:)
     
  17. carpenter

    carpenter member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2007
    Messages:
    78
    Depends upon the state in which you live. Some CCW laws are written to allow it. Some forbid it. Of course, some states won't even issue a CCW so the question there is moot.

    You'd bloody well better know exactly what your law says before you even opt to carry. There's no excuse to carry concealed, thus accepting the implicit and explicit liabililty of such, and not know the law.
     
  18. Crunker1337

    Crunker1337 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,168
    I don't think beating him to death would be justified. I leave judgment up to God, the only reason I'd step in is because that guy is a direct threat to the vet. I don't dish out punishment, I just try to stop crimes in the act or in preemptive strikes.

    If you're willing to kill someone for trying to pick a fight with you then so be it; you'll be carted off to jail. I'll defend myself if necessary, but my intent is always to survive; not necessarily to kill or injure anyone else. I don't think it's bad to do either of those things if there's no other way though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2007
  19. dcoop

    dcoop Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Southwest, Ohio
    I would have shot that SOB. Words cannot describe my disgust for that individual:fire:
     
  20. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    We?? I wasn't there. The folks watching were almost certainly in on it. Just look at them.

    We shouldn't be LEAVING the city to the nogoodniks in the first place, as we have been for generations now. I cruise the streets of a dangerous neighborhood every day. Lots of folks, including a lot of people on this forum, have told me I should move to someplace safer with gates and green lawns. Not only would such a place kill me with boredom, retreating to these suburban enclaves is a cowardly act. Peaceful demonstration is pointless. We need to come back to the city and we need to be ARMED.

    True, a mob beating him to death would not have been justified. But from the angle of the video, he is wailing on an old man while pinning him between the door edge and another car. That's imminent deadly peril in spades. Unless something else was going on there that doesn't show up in the video, it would have been a perfectly good shot to blow his head off with no warning. Of curse, that being Detroit the powers that be would still probaby try to convict you of murder. But that's another matter.

    That's easy to avoid. Simply never try to stop a fist fight with fists, and don't try to stop one at all unless someone is about to kill another. If it's just mutual combat, it's a matter for the police, NOT you. If it's a young guy pounding an old guy to his death, kill the young guy to stop it. But don't lay hand on him. You lay hand on him and YOU become part of the fight. Everything gets murky after that.
     
  21. Jack19

    Jack19 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    Eastern CSA
    I grew up in Detroit, and policed there in the early 80s (as did most of my male relatives; from the late 1920s on.) Detroit was then, and is now, a **** hole; whenever I go back, I can't wait to leave.

    My father-in-law, is an 83 year old WW2 vet. The bastard that beat this guy needs to be shot on sight.
     
  22. 06

    06 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Too close to Charlotte, NC
    My bestest buddy from the "Crotch"'s mother was brutally beaten in a purse snatching in a shopping center in North Charlotte, NC. We hunted for him for several days. I made myself a promise that if I ever witnesssed anything like that I would put a sudden stop to it even if it meant prison time for me. Someone has to take a stand-someone has to have the guts to put a halt to assults on the helpless-or anyone. There were about 20 people in that shopping center and no one-NO ONE- so much as even shouted at the perp. The police finally got there 43 minutes after the call. She spent nearly a week in the hospital with facial, rib, and collar bone fractures. A sad commentary on "people" when they will not help an elderly woman being terribly assaulted. The perp dragged her about 75 feet before finally kicking her loose. She had the church money in it that she was about to deposit. wc
     
  23. theken206

    theken206 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    802
    Location:
    Fife/Tacoma WA the "dub" A state
    I would enjoy bouncing that gentlmens head off the ground a few times after I knocked him there and then applying some torque onto a few of his limbs till some stuff goes snap crackle pop.

    that was wrong on so many levels but im neither shocked at the casuall violence of the perp {he would have done that to anyone he thought he could have,a pretty much helpless old man,your 16 yo teenage daughter who ever}it nor suprised that no one would do a thing to help.
     
  24. Dorryn

    Dorryn Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Society has changed. We are no longer able to defend the innocent by any means. If we meet force with force we are subject to laws that make it "fair" for the criminal, the bully, the hooligan that subjects the elderly and infirm to brutal violence.

    For everyone who said they would have shot the guy beating the vet, good for you. For the rest who would have not gotten involved for fear of being sued, going to jail, or simply just looking out for Number 1, shame on you. You disgust me.
     
  25. Elza

    Elza Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    692
    Location:
    North Texas
    Not to mention the possibility of being charged with a “hate crime”.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page