9mm 124gr fail-to-feed
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tightgroup tiger
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Only tighten your crimp up far enough that when you run a set of dial calipers up the case you don't see a gain in thickness in the shortest case you can find. More crimp will only hurt the accuracy.
The neck tension in the case holds the bullet, not the taper crimp. The taper crimp only removes the flare the neck sizing die put in the case so you can seat the bullet.
You've gotten some really good info here, a lot of good info.
I shoot nothing but Titegroup in 9mm with 124 gr bullets. I would bump the load up to 3.8gr and shorten the OAL up to 1.135" and try that. I think you will see your problems go away.
3.8gr is the lightest I load Titegroup in 9mm with 124gr anything @ 1.135gr because it will cycle in a every 9mm I own.
4.1gr is my standard load for compacts and full size both at the same OAL with the round nose plated bullets. It's the most accurate I've found but will launch brass out of my compacts quite a ways.
3.8 gr of Titegroup with 1.135 OAL (RN) in a full size 9mm will land them to the right of where I'm standing, all in a nice little area. Easy to pick up.
You could try 3.8 gr of Titegroup at 1.135 OAL and if it works for you, you can start lengthening it out to get where you want to be or until it quits cycling correctly. That's where I would start.
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tightgroup tiger
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Excellent! What OAL did you load them at?
around 1.148 to 1.150. Very happy with the results. Now going to try the same on another batch with hopefully the same results. I think I'll go out and buy a chronometer first though. Should I have one?
A chronograph is not required to load safely... but it gives you more information and answers questions as you approach max loads. I loaded for several years without a chrono, but I'm definitely glad I have one now when I work up loads or just want to tune a load to a certain gun. They're so cheap, I'd say get one if you can. You'll find one in the $100 +/- range. Sometimes you'll find a deal on used chronographs on Ebay.
My favorite "cheap" chronograph is the CE ProChronoDLX because of it's built-in Bluetooth capability and great app for phones or tablet. You can spend a whole lot more to get the same info that this unit provides.
lordpaxman
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That’s a good thing. What about the grouping and POI/POA?
I reloaded years without a chrono but it’s one of the more useful tools I now employ. I second @drband and used the prochrono with Bluetooth for many years. If you have extra $$’s, the LabRadar is what I use now.
LiveLife
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+1. If you are staying below published max load data, chrono is not necessary to develop accurate loads as conducting full powder work up will identify the powder charge that will produce smaller groups. But if you shoot matches and need to meet particular power factor, chrono is necessary.
And if you are working near max load data, I highly recommend the use of scale with resolution verified to .1 gr accuracy with check weights - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-recommendations.862588/page-2#post-11375730
And pin gages for calipers - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/measuring-crimp.860279/#post-11320703
As to accuracy, smaller groups are result of more consistent muzzle velocities that are from more consistent chamber pressures. And more consistent chamber pressures are from more consistent OAL/bullet seating depth from bullets with more consistent nose profile/ogive, more consistent powder charges, more consistent neck tension. Of course, using headstamp brass that won't produce bullet setback (or minimize) are likely to produce more consistent chamber pressures - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4
And if I am starting with longer working OAL like 1.150"-1.160", I will incrementally decrease the OAL (like down to 1.135" for 124 gr FMJ/RN and 1.130" for 115 gr FMJ/RN) to see if accuracy improves as I found shorter OAL for 9mm with neck tension issue/bullet setback improves accuracy with shorter OAL (due to thicker case wall further below case mouth where bullet base gets seated to). And if I am using working OAL significantly shorter than published OAL, I will reduce start/max charges by .2 - .3 gr.
This is why you are now seeing my load development with shorter 1.135" OAL for 124 gr FMJ/RN and even shorter 1.110" OAL for 115 gr FMJ/RN (Exception is when I am using less dense fluffy powders and I will use longer OAL to not compress powder charge).
Berry's regular plated 124 gr RN with 4.0 gr of Titegroup shot to point of aim as shown in below 25 yard groups other than occasional deviation to left due to shooter's input on trigger/grip (Keep in mind, this was with mixed range brass) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...e-pistol-reloaders.746062/page-2#post-9382933
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I'm pretty new at this and haven't looked at POI/POA yet. If my next loads are reliable then I'll probably start looking at accuracy.
lordpaxman
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I’ve not found this to always be the case with pistol loads in the 10-20 yard range. When I first got a chrono, I was shocked to find out the loads with the lowest SD didn’t result in the tightest groupings. One may question samples of 10 for a valid SD, but my initial load development usually has that as a sample size. It is desirable to be consistent in our reloading practices to try to generate quality ammunition.
The PRS crowd does like very low SD numbers, but for pistol and my loads, there’re some other variables affecting group size more than velocity.
LiveLife
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Like shooter input?
I am definitely guilty of that - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...endence-from-work.853305/page-4#post-11387109
Well, I will be doing chrono data collection on my next range trip to verify my initial PCC load development powder work up/down (I should have started at 4.8 gr of Promo). Also, I got new scope mounts (Both quick detach and fixed) for PCC load testing so we'll see if it was me or the wandering mounts.
Looking forward to that next range report, @LiveLife!Like shooter input?
I am definitely guilty of that - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...endence-from-work.853305/page-4#post-11387109
Well, I will be doing chrono data collection on my next range trip to verify my initial PCC load development powder work up/down (I should have started at 4.8 gr of Promo). Also, I got new scope mounts (Both quick detach and fixed) for PCC load testing so we'll see if it was me or the wandering mounts.
lordpaxman
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I resemble that remark!Like shooter input?
AdApologiesVance as it’s a bit off the thread topic, but when I do load work ups I use an inexpensive Caldwell pistol bench rest since I don’t have access to that Ransom rest, nor do I have plans for that ultimate gun rest . So my groups certainly do have an amount of spread due to Moi, hopefully consistent across the tests. Across the many varied loads and calibers, I have not found a data trend that suggests the lowest SD produces the tightest groups, for pistol at close range. It may be that way for others, just not me.
I set up for 1.150 but most came out around 1.148
wannabefree
Member
Just a little side note. I load Berry's and Xtreme 124 GRRN bullets also but use HP38 powder and have had similar issues with both my G26 & G17 when I load lighter loads. I currently use 4.3gr of Hp38 and an OAL of 1.35 and have not had any problems when I shoot them. However just yesterday I took my nephew and his wife out to do a little target shooting and His wife had several FTF or Fail to Load not because of the loads but because she has weak wrists and was limp wristing. I loaded several magazines and personally never had an issue but everytime she shot it happened. I say this because I used to have the same problem until I learned to put a death grip on my guns but its just second nature now.
For what it is worth She was able to shoot my M&P Shield with no problem same bullets.
For what it is worth She was able to shoot my M&P Shield with no problem same bullets.
Good info. I've been shooting Glocks only since January of 2015. I think I limp wristed a couple when I first started but learned that lesson pretty quick. No problems with that since.
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