9mm 1911 Failure to extract

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Dudedog

Dudedog

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OK, first one of these I have ran into.
Pistol has been flawless as far as feeding and extracting
(in the middle of a match so didn't recover the problem case, or the mag it was in, multiple mags laying about and someone picked a couple up for me....sigh)
Gun was cleaned, extractor channel cleaned before the match, maybe 90 rounds in before it happened.
Checked tension with the slide off by inserting loaded (dummy) round and shaking slide.
Seems ok.
I could bend it a little to increase tension but not sure if that is the answer.
Bad piece of brass?
Extractor just getting worn out? (20K+ rounds on it)
Maybe time for a new extractor, but something else maybe?
Mag, recoil spring etc?

Fired another 100 rounds after the match, no problems of course since I was trying to get it to fail.
 
20K on an extractor is nothing. I've put more than that on one in a year and never had to replace one. I'd bet a tension problem or a bad piece of brass. Maybe you do have a bad extractor from the factory but I'd try adjusting first. If that doesn't work try a Wilson.
 
Dudedog said:
Fired another 100 rounds after the match, no problems of course since I was trying to get it to fail.
Click to expand...

My best estimate is, tat it was a bad brass. The fact that you couldn't get it to repeat, to me , means the cause left the gun...the round. I wouldn't overthink it. Tap, rack, back in the match... Obviously if the match is riding on it, shoot it, if it duplicates, it's the extractor, replace it, but shoot it before you need it. As 1MoreFord said before, 20k is nothing on an extractor.
 
Yep, drop mag, clear, new mag back at.
Another 100 or so in the match after that, + 100 at the end and it was happy, just want to make sure it doesn't need some attention. (sometimes they get upset if you don't give them the proper amount of attention:))
Not a deal breaker, I'm not going to win the match, I would just prefer to do my jam clearing drills some other time.

Stock Springfield extractor fine up until now.
Forgot to mention, shooting range brass, unknown number of reloads, I do look and throw any that look bad in the recycle can but one could have slipped through.
.
I'll go run about 500 more through it this coming weekend and see if it's still happy.
Probably need to eyeball all my loaded ammo.

Thanks guys,
 
There is no reason that it happened that can be sensibly identified or even guessed at with such a low rate of failure. It is a statistical phenomenon. With every semi-auto pistol and ammo combination the is a certain probability of a failure on every shot. Your very low number just came up, that's all. It could happen again tomorrow or in 10 years, most likely 10 years, but nobody can predict.

Now if you were getting a failure or two in every box of ammo, then there would clearly be a pathway to improvement that could be pursued with trial and error and a good gunsmith. But if we are talking one failure in 20,000, man the reason for that is just happenstance as far as you would ever be able to know.

In self-defense handgun classes they teach the three types of malfunctions and how to clear them for a reason...they just happen.
 
Don't know if it is brass or the extractor, but I thought what the heck call up Springfield and order a new one can't be that much and it doesn't hurt to have spares.
Called Customer service, rep looked up part, said hmm, no price, looked for price again and said hmm,
"OK well I can't find a price so I will just send it to you under warranty if that's ok with you?"

I said sounds great to me send it!

Nice to see that they care about their customers.
Kudos to Springfield.
 
Onboard said:
I might not be much help! But knowing a bit more about what is going on might help others assist you in this delightful task. I've had to deal with this problem as well, but mostly with 38 Super and rimless variants, and two odd things were that the extractor tension had to be much 'tighter' than I expected, and in one instance I need to replace the ejector with a 'wider' one because it wasn't hitting the brass reliably. In other words, I know the frustration of trying to figure out what the heck is going on when it seems like everything is adjusted properly and it still won't work.
Click to expand...
Best I can tell you don’t have anything like the same situation as OP. It sound like you have a recurrent and frequent problem which can be improved by trial-and-error solutions. Once again, a single malfunction in years can not be effectively troubleshot.
 
Don't mean to sound like I am complaining about one, semi autos have issues on occasion, it's the nature of the beast.
In perspective the % failure rate on this pistol is fantastic.
However I would prefer to head off any issues (if there are any) before they get worse.
If there is a problem it will not get better by it's self. (and of course I can always try to fix it and make it worse..or better:))
Will see how it goes when I run another 200 or 300 thru it, again possibly just bad piece of brass.
 
Replacement extractor from Springfield showed up the other day. (a little slow but since it was free I can't complain)
I thought it was nice of them to replace it under warranty.
Worked last weekend so I didn't have a chance to make a range trip:cuss:.

Hopefully this weekend. I don't know if I should run a couple 100 thru with the old one and see if it misbehaves or just but the new free one in and see if it behaves.
I know a couple failures in about 20k rounds is a very small% but I know it can behave perfectly. (unless of course it was just bad brass.....)
 
In my career I learned that manufacturing processes operated by the statistically naïve often provide excellent examples of the futility of seeking perfection that doesn't exist. They devolve into an orgy of knob turning seeking the perfect conditions to make the product just right all the while the results just keep getting worse and worse. But it isn't just manufacturing. Many common processes act the same way. There is a variability in results which we must try to minimize, but we shouldn't imagine it is possible to reduce variability to zero. In those terms what OP is doing here is very possibly overcorrecting his process. Put another way he is just as likely to find that his new extractor makes the problem worse as better. OP's pistol isn't (wasn't) broke, and IMO he shouldn't be trying to fix it.
 
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Changing the extractor may make it worse or better or make no difference. Changing a recoil spring could cause issues, but I replace them every so often
Parts do wear out and need to be replaced.
 
Dudedog said:
Changing the extractor may make it worse or better or make no difference. Changing a recoil spring could cause issues, but I replace them every so often
Parts do wear out and need to be replaced.
Click to expand...
No doubt. But a single FTE is no indicator of a worn part. The chance of doing more harm then good by replacing the extractor when there has been no indication of need is very high. In the analogy I described above, you are turning the knob to adjust out a problem which was very likely just due to statistical variation. The new setting (IOW the new part) could very possibly not be as good as what you already have. Just my prejudice. Not trying to strong-arm you, just to present an alternative view.
 
I am keeping the old one close by just in case! and I won't start to trust the new one for at least 500 rnds
I do lean towards if its not broke don't fix it, but the new one was free and Springfield did seem to think that after 20K+ rounds it might possibly need replacing.
Be prepared for a good laugh when I put the new one in if it makes things worse. (and if it does I will admit it so everyone can say I told you so:))

PS still need to pull the old one out and compare the two and see if there is any wear pattern or obvious difference.
(and make sure they didn't send me one for a .45!)
 
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rpenmanparker said:
In my career I learned that manufacturing processes operated by the statistically naïve often provide excellent examples of the futility of seeking perfection that doesn't exist. They devolve into an orgy of knob turning seeking the perfect conditions to make the product just right all the while the results just keep getting worse and worse. But it isn't just manufacturing. Many common processes act the same way. There is a variability in results which we must try to minimize, but we shouldn't imagine it is possible to reduce variability to zero. In those terms what OP is doing here is very possibly overcorrecting his process
Click to expand...

Seldom have I read such concise wisdom. I appreciate your insights. :)
 
Shot another couple 100 yesterday.
3 failure to extract brass looks ok.
Will try changing it out and see if I make things better or worse.

Other causes than the extractor?
Firing pin stop I suppose, what others?
 
BBBBill is correct. Of all the parts in a 1911 a new extractor is always going to need some tuning work done. And 9mm extractors will usually need more bending because they have to reach farther than a .45.. When that round comes up the hook has to be in exactly the right place to recieve it and the round must slide in with minimal drag. I always lightly radius the square corners off of the hook and finish on a buffing wheel so fouling wipes off of it easily with a rag.
 
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Haven't put the new one it yet to try. Something is going on with the old one or something else.
If I can't get the new one to cooperate when I put it in I can always send it back to Springfield, they offered to take care of it for me.
I just didn't want to be without it with a match coming up. So either I can get it to work or shoot the match with a less familiar gun.
No complaints lots of rounds on it so things wear out.
I said 20K but I haven't been counting might be closer to 30k.
 
My newer 1911 would fail to extract with my reloads. After I cleaned the extracter hole in the slide for the second time,the first time I think I used a q-tip, the second time I used a rifle bore brush, then I got out a flake of crap of the extracter hole.

Seems like that fixed it for now.
 
Most people never clean the extractor tunnel. It's amazing how much crud builds up in there.
 
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