Quantcast

9mm case gage

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Leo01, Oct 25, 2020.

  1. Leo01

    Leo01 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2020
    Messages:
    1
    Hello,
    I have a lot of 9mm brass that won’t fit into my Wilson case gage. I’m using a Lyman Luger TC sizing die. I raise the shell holder and screw the die down until it touches the shell holder then back off a half turn and tighten the die 1/8th checking the brass in the gage every time. I do this until I can’t cam over the handle. I don’t think the resizing die even reaches the bottom of the die? Is this brass ruined?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. BLACKFIN

    BLACKFIN Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2020
    Messages:
    93
    The brass might not be ruined. Lets check a few things.

    check the gage you are using is in fact 9mm Luger

    , also, the die “without a case” needs to be screwed down until it touches the shell holder then tighten the locking ring without backing up anything.
     
  3. mdi

    mdi Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    3,475
    Location:
    Orygun!
    Do the rounds/cases chamber in your gun? When I first started reloading for semi-autos (9mm in '95) I thought I needed a case/cartridge gauge. I fought my dies, methods, and even bought new dies and rarely did I get any to fit the gauge correctly. I tried the plunk test and found all my handloads fit the barrel quite well and I put the gauge in a drawer somewhere. Several thousand rounds later and I have had zero chambering problems reloading mixed brass, home cast, PCed, plated and jacketed bullets from several different manufacturers, in 4, 9mm pistols (same in one 32 ACP, one 380 ACP, and 3, 45 ACP guns). The case gauge I had (Wilson) seemed to be minimum SAAMI specs and my dies were a hair bigger.
     
  4. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    5,912
    Location:
    Southern CA
    I use mixed range brass and out of every 1000 I will have some (amount varies) say 10-20 that won't fit in the gauge after being resized.
    Most will plunk in the chambers of my guns but since I have plenty of 9mm brass I just toss them in the recycle can.
    It does not look like the case is hanging up on the rim (doesn't get that far) so I would be curious if lowering the die a little bit would make it fit.
    I have my die set to just "kiss" the shell plate in my LNL, but even with the die all the way down there is a part of the case it can't reach, just the way it is with dies. (the reason they make roll sizers)

    edit: So since the die can't do the entire case (nature of the beast) some will just not fit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
    Toprudder and Skgreen like this.
  5. PWC

    PWC Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Messages:
    849
    Location:
    Central AZ
    All dies, unless they are custom or have been "customized" by their owner, will not reach the case head and will leave a bright ring around the head. This is not to be confused with incipent head separation, but is a sizing "ring".
     
    Toprudder and Skgreen like this.
  6. higgite

    higgite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,320
    FWIW, I have Wilson Pistol Max gauges and Dillon Handgun Case gauges in 45ACP and 9mm. The Wilson gauges are reamed to SAAMI maximum pistol case dimensions. The Dillon gauges are reamed to SAAMI minimum chamber dimensions. A portion of my handloads won’t pass a Wilson gauge but will pass a Dillon gauge, mostly dependent on the diameter of the bullet I happen to be loading. All that pass a Dillon gauge work just fine in my pistols even though they failed the Wilson gauge. Bottom line… just because it fails a Wilson gauge doesn’t mean it’s a total failure. Plunk test in your pistol’s chamber to be sure.
     
    Toprudder likes this.
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    64,422
    Location:
    Alabama
    Since the 9MM is a tapered case, make sure the sizer is all the way down when actually sizing a case to account fir press flex. Make sure you are fully sizing the case.

    That said.

    I use the same gauge to check my sized brass, and if the brass fails the gauge I scrap it, I have too much 9MM range brass to worry with cases that may have been over stressed with high pressure.
    Wilson 9MM Case Gauge Pic 1.JPG

    As has been posted, the brass may still fit your pistols chamber, but it might jam up tight in someone else's. I want my 9MM ammo to fit any 9MM that comes along. I started doing this when I bought an EMP. It had an undersized chamber which SA fixed, but only to SAMMI minimum at the base, so cases that failed the gauge would lock it up. Factory ammo of course was ok. Up until then I had been blissfully unaware since my other 9MMs had been eating oversized cases like candy.
     
    Toprudder, sparkyv and Skgreen like this.
  8. Otto

    Otto Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    Lone Star State
    Here's Lyman's instructions for adjusting a TC sizer......................

    "Adjusting the T/C die: With the shellholder at its highest point, turn your T/C die into the press until the dies’ bottom edge is just the thickness of a matchbook cover away form the shellholder. Tighten the die lock ring and the set screw. Your T/C die is ready to use. Do not turn your T/C die to contact the top of the shellholder! Carbide is extremely hard material which shatters easily if forced against a hard surface, such as the shellholder"
     
  9. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    64,422
    Location:
    Alabama
    Not many sizers anymore have the carbide ring flush with the bottom of the die, and while this way to adjust the sizer will work with all the straight walled cases, we need to be sure we are getting all we can with the 9MM sizer. Not to mention the cases are subject to high pressure, and at times over pressure from handloaders.

    So, check your sizer and see if the carbide ring is flush or recessed, and there is no need for it to be hard against the shell holder, but to just touch it when sizing isn't going to hurt anything.
     
    Demi-human and Dudedog like this.
  10. Johnnyd

    Johnnyd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Messages:
    53
    Are you using a Lyman shell holder? Not all shell holders are made to the same spec.
     
  11. falmike

    falmike Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2005
    Messages:
    200
    Location:
    Fort Hood, TX
    A Lee Factory Crimp Die will be your best friend with this. It is mine.
     
    Matt Dillon and Zendude like this.
  12. ballman6711

    ballman6711 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2019
    Messages:
    287
    Doe's Lyman list their sizing die as "TC" or are you possibly trying to size your brass using your Taper Crimp die?

    chris
     
  13. Project355

    Project355 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2020
    Messages:
    480
    Many good answers here!

    The range I formerly worked for (mid 80'd-mid 90's) loaded well over a million rounds a year as "range ammo", from harvested cases and lead. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the 9mm case gave us the most trouble out of any cartridge.

    The cause of the problem was two-fold. First, 9mm chambers, and more specifically the ramps or unsupported part of the chamber, varies all over the place between all the manufacturers and even different models from the same company. Second, being slightly tapered, when sized, the 9mm case tends to "flow" brass toward the head of the case. That second problem tends to be an issue when cases are resized several times - as you may be encountering, and as we certainly encountered recycling all the brass we would sweep up each day.

    The result is that 9mm cases get a bit of a fat ring of brass, or bulge of brass that may go around the entire case close to the head, or just be a bulge where a particularly unsupported section was located.

    Our "fix" was also two-fold. First I modified the sizing die with a diamond wheel on the surface grinder. I think it was close to .020 that was removed from the length, which had the effect of reducing the diameter of the carbide ring's entrance. The die was then seated lower. That took a bit of trial and error, because the 9mm's were loaded on a Star progressive machine and I didn't want to have misalignment issues - some bell, or flare in the die was necessary.

    The next thing I did was reduce the thickness of the shell plate, which had the effect of shoving the case into the shortened die a bit further. I think in total there was about .030 more insertion (give or take) all together.

    That cured about 90 percent of the "fat 9's". We had a "dud" box, and when a shooter would say a round wouldn't chamber, we'd just toss it in the box. When bullet pullin' time came around, the 9's got tossed for scrap, not worth pulling. And by the way, one of the guys had a really nice puller he invented. It was two plates, with holes like chambers on a revolver. The lower plate was cut for rimmed cartridge heads, the upper plate had access holes for the lower plate, but twisted on three slots held by bolts. You'd load the plate, twist the upper to keep things in place, then put an inpact hammer in the middle from the bullet side. Press the whole s'bang against an old tire we had for that purpose, and hit the trigger on the hammer. Six bullets would pop out in the blink of an eye. Made bullet pulling for 45 colt and 44mag/spec... 38/357 really fast n easy. Most of the time we had a bad primer, or reverse primer, that sort of thing. I think we set someone to pulling bullets... about once a year, when the box looked like it was getting too heavy to lift ;) We didn't have that many duds.
     
  14. Tcruse

    Tcruse Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    603
    Location:
    Corinth Texas
    Using the Lee undersized 9mm die fixed my problems. Namely, my issue was brass that was shot in a gun with little support (Glock gen 3) and then attempting to use the reloaded ammo in a gun with a lot of support and tight chamber (Dan Wesson 1911). I also found that with the undersized die and a "M" expander die, the need for a crimp die was not necessary. The seating die removed the bell. I use the Lyman gage for every round. The only reloads that fail are ones that have a damaged base extractor ring, in general. (<1 per 100)
    Accuracy of my reloads improved.
     
  15. edwardware

    edwardware Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,916
    Very nice case gauge, how does it shoot?

    Decide whether you're loading for the case gauge, or a firearm, and stop using whichever you're not loading for. There's no reason to imagine that your case gauge is representative of your chamber(s), and every reason to be confident it's not.

    Also, modern carbide pistol dies should be set to mild cam-over. You'll wear out before you harm the die that way.
     
    Demi-human likes this.
  16. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    4,958
    Location:
    Cornelia, GA
    There is some confusion here brought on by the dies themselves. Lyman makes a tungsten carbide sizing die they call the "Tc Die". There is also a Taper Crimp die called the "TC Die".

    Can you please clarify with words or a photo that your particular die has a decapping stem in the center ?
     
    Demi-human likes this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice