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9mm cases not ejecting.

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Muddydogs, Apr 27, 2013.

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  1. Muddydogs

    Muddydogs Member

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    I loaded up some Lee 105 SWC, 5.7 grains of Unique, mixed head stamp brass.

    I started to test the load and found that 1 out of 5 cases would not eject from the Glock 26. What it looks like is happening is the extractor is not catching the brass, the slide comes back and strips another round off the mag which of course hits the case that's already in the chamber. I dropped the mag and can slide the case out of the chamber with my fingernail. This happened on 3 5 round strings then the last 6 round string cycled just fine. I have some military head stamps mixed in with commercial brass and I didn't think to look at the head stamps of the offending cases. Any ideas what might be causing this? Yes I checked the brass and it is all 9mm, no .380s by mistake. Shot 15 rounds out of a Ruger P95 with no issues.
     
  2. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    You might try replaceing the recoil spring; it's easy, cheap and might solve your problem.

    I haven't checked your load with a load book but in some guns, a light load or light bullets don't provide enough recoil to cycle the action. I don't know if that applies to your load.
     
  3. kevinakaq

    kevinakaq Member

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    First time post, but i went through a similiar problem last week with a new Bersa Bp9cc. I was using 102 grain lee bullets in 9mm. At first I loaded up with Power Pistol at 5.7 grains and had quite a few stove pipes and failure to eject. About one every six. I then tried 6.1 gr PP (using .57 cc Lee Pro Auto Disk) and had zero problems. And btw finding data for this weight in 9mm lead is quite difficult. I then tried Unique as it is one of my favorite powders. It was the worse of the bunch at 5.4 grains. It had a failure to eject almost everytime...this load is very close to your 5.7 grain load. I ran the rounds over the chronograph and the 5.4 grains Unique came in around 1020 fps. The 5.7 grains of PP came in at 1100 or so if memories serves. I found that 6.1 PP averaged 1173 which consistently worked the action flawlessly. I have since put two hundred rounds of 6.1 PP pushing the 102 grain lead bullet with zero issues. In short, i think you need a bit more umf to push that light bullet and get the necessary pressure to work the action. Please remember i'm by no means an expert, but this was my experience last week which was conducted over days of research, reading and testing. Don't know if it applies in your case, but hope it helps.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  4. Mobuck

    Mobuck member

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    Ditch the Glock and use the Ruger. Only reason to use a Glock in the first place is if you don't have a Ruger.
     
  5. Muddydogs

    Muddydogs Member

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    This is for a buddy, there his pistols. I prefer the .40 and XD's but his Glock isn't bad either. The load is a light load, I used Lyman 102 grain data as a start load, there bottom load is 5.7 grains of Unique. My cast bullets are dropping at 108 grains. I was worried about the SWC causing feed problems but they have no problems feeding. So if the load is light would that effect ejection? The slide is coming all the way back and picking up a round causing a stove pipe.
     
  6. kevinakaq

    kevinakaq Member

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    Absolutely, i would move to a mid range or higher load for a lighter bullet. At least it solved my problems. I read somewhere during my research last week that exact thing and it fixed me up quick fast and in a hurry.
     
  7. engineermike

    engineermike Member

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    Although I was shooting an XDM 40 and a Walther PPS 9mm I found that shooting to lite a load would cause the same effect. If you are shooting lite loads then bump up the powder a few grains and if not lite loads try exchanging the spring.
     
  8. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    Huh the noobs have became the teachers. Cool.
     
  9. bds
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    bds Member

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    I would first check to see if you have an extractor issue or worn case rim.

    When the spent case fails to extract, lock the slide back/drop the magazine then release the slide. Then manually pull the slide back and lock the slide back. If the spent case doesn't extract, I would inspect the case where extractor contacts and the extractor.
     
  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The Lee 105 Lead bullet is designed for the .380 ACP cartridge.

    Most all 9mm pistols are designed to work with the recoil impulse of a 115 - 124 grain bullet at full charge power & pressure.

    You either need a heavier bullet the gun was designed to work with.
    Or enough powder to increase the pressure / recoil impulse to a level that will operate the gun.

    One, the other, or both.

    rc
     
  11. bds
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    bds Member

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    rcmodel, I thought about that at first but the OP posted the same load operated the Ruger P95 without issues. I have shot both pistols and do realize G26 may have different rate recoil spring assembly but IIRC, the P95 is a 3.9" barrel pistol with fairly stiff recoil spring. That's why I suggested the OP look at the extractor/case.
    Apparently, the powder charge is enough to push the slide back far enough to strip another round from the magazine but the spent case is remaining in the chamber.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  12. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    You are correct.

    But a Ruger P95 is a full size service pistol that will shoot a wide range of bullet weights and pressure levels without problems.

    The Glock 26 is a sub-compact with much stiffer recoil springs, due to less slide weight, and is not as forgiving when it comes to 'standard 9mm bullet weight' recoil impulse.

    rc
     
  13. kevinakaq

    kevinakaq Member

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    I went out to the cave and loaded up ten rounds of 102 with 5.7 unique to test. Had two stove pipes and one failure to extract...the bersa does have a very stiff action as well...
     
  14. bds
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    bds Member

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    kevinakaq, OP's offending spent cases are still in the chamber. Are you having the same issue as the OP?
    I have seen this when using 40-9 conversion barrels where the extractor can't get enough grip on the case rim to extract the spent cases. I am more puzzled because the P95 (with a different extractor) extracted the same loads without issues.


    rcmodel, so the slide is coming back far enough to strip another round from the magazine but not far enough for the case to hit the ejector?

    I just checked my Glocks and all the ejectors are forward of the back of the rounds in the magazine. The only way I can see a round being stripped from the magazine by the slide rib and be pushed behind the spent case in the chamber is if the spent case never got extracted. If the OP's spent cases were being stove piped, I would agree with insufficient powder charge.

    Am I missing something?
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  15. kevinakaq

    kevinakaq Member

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    Both, sorry for my explanation specificity... I need to catch up on the jargon. The one did not fully withdraw from the chamber and the other two stove piped. I think the action just didnt retract enough to fully eject the brass. When i used 5.4 unique the other day they consistently failed to extract fully from the chamber. Everything i read matched what rc said. The concealed weapons have a much stiffer action and need a heavier powder charge for the really light bullets. I'm in for the evening but i would bet my bottom dollar a few grains more would solve it entirely. I just went with the Power Pistol ecause it worked and i liked the way the load felt under fire. Met my needs. Will test 6 gr unique tomorrow as i am down to one pound of pp and have lots of unique...
     
  16. Muddydogs

    Muddydogs Member

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    The slide is coming back all the way to pick up another round but its leaving the case in the chamber, the case is not getting pulled out of firing position just like the extractor didn't engage the case rim. I did remove one case by dropping the mag, sending the slide forward and ejecting the case. The other 2 I just stuck my fingernail on the case and pulled it out of the chamber.

    Sounds like I need to set it up, think I will try 6 grains up to 6.5 grains and see what I come up with. Wanted to keep these a light target money saver load. I load this same bullets in .38 and as soon as the .380 dies show up I'm going to give them a go in the Ruger LCP.

    Thanks for the help guys.
     
  17. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    If you are trying to go cheap??

    Light bullets and medium burn rate powder like Unique is not it.

    You can use Unique with standard weight bullets at standard, or +P pressure, and it will give you full performance.

    Or use it for full power loads with lighter then standard weight bullets, but at full pressure loads.

    But if you insist on using a too light bullet, use a faster powder to get more recoil impulse to operate the gun. Like Bullseye, Clays, Tite-group, W231 or something.


    Test your loads by loading one round in the magazine and firing it.

    If the slide locks open, you have enough recoil impulse to work the slide to full cycle open.

    If it fails to lock open all the time or sometimes?
    You don't.

    rc
     
  18. Muddydogs

    Muddydogs Member

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    Not stuck on the bullet all I need is another mold. I am stuck on Unique as thats my pistol powder and I'm not playing the panic game right now.

    I guess what I am not understanding with worrying about the slide locking back is the slide is picking up a round out of the mag so its traveling at least that far but the case is not being pulled from the chamber to start with. And between 2 of us we did run the pistol dry 5 or 6 times and the slide did lock back each time when run empty so the load is functioning the slide to lock back.
     
  19. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Well, if it locks open on an empty mag every time it runs dry?

    Then I'd look at extractor hook & spring & plunger issues.

    Not handload issues.

    Case expansion, or not, due to low or high pressure should not cause the extractor to stop working.

    If the slide is cycling fully to the rear, and not putting the empty case back in the chamber before the ejector cannot knock it out of the gun.

    rc
     
  20. bds
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    bds Member

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    I would try the same load in different Glocks and if the extraction problem cannot be duplicated, I would be suspicious of the extractor.

    I would test some factory loads (yeah, if you can find some :rolleyes:) or other "known reliable" reloads and if the extraction issue continues, I would contact Glock customer service.


    Here's Randy Lee of Apex Tactical commenting about some 9mm Glock extractor problems - http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92447

    Keep in mind that more and more Glocks are now made in the USA ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  21. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    NOTE: If a Glock has a weak recoil spring you will get failures to eject even if you're not shooting light loads.
     
  22. Muddydogs

    Muddydogs Member

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    I'm going to try ramping up the load a little, it shoots factory fine, the pistol is a year or so old and has probably only had a couple hundred rounds through it. I'm sure its my reload I just didn't understand why it was leaving the case in the chamber but it looks like this can be caused by an under powered load, from what I have been reading and a couple posts on this thread. It seams like my load is probably right on the edge of functioning and with a little powder thrower variation it makes sense.
     
  23. rodregier

    rodregier Member

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    Test with factory to confirm function. If it functions ok with factory, its probably the reload loading is simply too light. Glocks are sprung for full power loadings. "Starting" or light loads with the 105g are unlikely to create proper function in a Glock.
     
  24. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    A tight grip might help also. The Glock it's very picky in that. A relaxed wrest will cause a empty to get shoved right back into the chamber.

    My P95 will function on loads that the Glock refuses to work with.
     
  25. bds
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    bds Member

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    I would tend to agree until OP posted that the reloads locked the Glock slide back.
    That's why I suggested OP try some factory loads or other "known reliable" reloads
    But now OP posts factory load shot fine ... :uhoh:
    If the reloads are locking the slide back on the last round, I think you have enough powder charge but if you are not experiencing the same problem with factory rounds, how about looking at another issue?

    Unique is a larger flake powder and meters inconsisntently (up to .2-.3 gr variation) for my powder measure. I don't know whether you weighed the 5.7 gr powder charges or used a powder measure, but if you had some lighter charge loads among your 5.7 gr loads, it could explain why most of the loads had enough powder charge to lock the slide back but some loads failed to extract the case from the chamber (slide pulls back but not far back enough to hit the ejector and inserts the spent case back in the chamber).


    I am still puzzled because if your slide stripped another round from the magazine and the spent case was in the chamber, it would mean the extractor did not grip the spent case rim to pull it out of the chamber.

    When you experience failure to extract, is the slide always stripping another round from the magazine? If that's the case, I would look at the extractor.

    If you are experiencing failure to extract with just the spent case in the chamber, it would be lighter powder charge load.

    And you could be experiencing both issues ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
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