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9mm CCW Best One To Buy?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by freebird, Apr 11, 2008.

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  1. freebird

    freebird Member

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    I know this has been asked I am sure a million times before but I am trying to narrow down my search. I have every other gun out there except for a 9mm. I originally bought a Taurus PT-145 for my CCW and love it but have been spoiled by my Kel-Tec P3AT that is so easy to carry. I want something similar to that in a 9mm that I can carry everyday. I am trying to decide between a Kel-Tec PF-9 or the Kahr PM9 (or any other suggestions). I know there is a major price difference!! Are the Kel-Tec's reliable enough to depend on? I know my P3AT I had to polish the feed ramp to get it running smoothly. I want something small and light in a 9mm but that I can depend on for it to go bang when needed. I know many will say get a Rohrbaugh but I can't afford one right now. I am open to any suggestions on anything. Thanks!
     
  2. WayneConrad

    WayneConrad Member

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    I carry the Kahr P9, the full-size version of the PM9. Functions flawlessly. The double-action-only trigger is very nice. I sold my Walther P99, a great pistol, because the double-stack magazine made it too large for my small hands. The P9, with its single-stack magazine, doesn't hold many rounds but it fits my hands perfectly. That means the rounds go where I aim them.

    I know that may not be much help, since the P9 isn't a PM9, and I can't tell you anything about the Kel-Tec. But I can tell you that the trigger on the Kahr is perfect. It's not too light, not too heavy, and breaks cleanly. I hope that helps some.
     
  3. Caleb Longstreet

    Caleb Longstreet Member

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    Plenty of stuff out there but I often wonder about all the controversy that surrounds Kel-Tec if it's worth the risk.....any weapon that has to go through a "fluff and buff" when new in my opinion, isn't worth the money.....why should I have to do ANYTHING to make a weapon function reliably when new....

    Not improved mind you, but new? I have yet to buy a Colt, Smith, Browning, Baretta, or Glock and have to do ANYTHING to it once I buy it....

    They ALL shoot FLAWLESSLY out of the box....it's like buying a car, wouldn't you be a bit suspicious of a car if you had to "tweak" it once you bought it just to make sure it runs?

    Don't think so and you shouldn't either. Just buy a well known brand with history. The Kahr is a nice, small, compact, reliable auto.

    Buy a name if for no other reason, your survivors might have someone to sue if it fails.....Kel-Tec? They would pack that CNC shop up in a few trailers and be gone that afternoon much like Jennings, Raven, and Phoenix???

    Not worth the risk....just my opinion...
     
  4. gilfo

    gilfo Member

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    Check out the CZ Rami. A little heavier than the PM9 but in my opinion a whole lot more dependable. Had a PM9 after "breaking it in" still had a boat load of problems. Bought a Rami Poly and never looked back. Lost a lot of money and confindence on Kahr products.
     
  5. freebird

    freebird Member

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    I like the CZ Rami, a very nice gun and a good price! But it appears to be about 10 oz heavier than the Karh and I wonder how much difference this will make? I guess I am just spoiled by the Kel-Tec being so light. I may have to give up the lightness though for something reliable. I would carry my PT-145 all the time if it were not so heavy. I ride a lot on my motorcycle and love something light and not bulky but yet reliable and at a decent price! The Karh's are way over priced in my opinion!
     
  6. goon

    goon Member

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    I have no complaints with my Kahr P-9 in terms of reliability or accuracy.
    It is also very slim and portable.
    I do have to say that after 3-4 years of carrying and shooting it, I'm still not as comfortable with it as I would like to be. It's definitely more of a carry gun than a shooting gun and it's never really fit my moderately large hands quite right.
    For those reasons alone, it might get replaced this summer.

    But as far as being a good gun, I don't think you could do a whole lot better.
    I do agree with you about price though - a new Kahr isn't cheap.
    And if you do have to use it and wind up having the police confiscate it, you have to buy another one.
    I don't know for sure, but CDNN often has used Glocks in stock. Maybe they'd have a G-26 at a reasonable price.

    With Kel-Tec, I've been told that they make some type of component for the US military an that the gun business is sort of something they started doing on the side. Might be gun store gossip but then again, maybe they were the lowest bidder who could make it work (seems to be their "niche").
     
  7. Tribal

    Tribal Member

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    I have a Kahr PM9 and it's both concealable and pretty light. I've had no FTF or FTE problems, although racking the first round can be a problem sometimes (never while firing, however). So long as you don't carry in Condition 3 it's not a problem. Basically, it's a thinner version of a Glock. If I had it to buy over, I'd have gotten the version with the black slide and the tritium sights.

    I don't get the impression that Kel-Tec is a fly-by-night operation. Their guns may be inexpensive and sometimes need work, but the designs are innovative and they fill their niche (inexpensive, decent-quality firearms) well.
     
  8. springmom

    springmom Member

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    Depending upon your size and where you live you might want to think about the Browning HiPower. It's just a little too big for me to conceal very well, but that has to do with Middle Aged Lady Curves rather than the gun itself. If you're built such that you can carry it and keep it concealed, there just isn't a better 9mm out there, imo.

    Springmom
     
  9. WayneConrad

    WayneConrad Member

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    RE: Trouble chambering the first round on a Kahr P9.

    The Kahr P9 will teach you to not ride the slide even a little when chambering the first round. So long as you release the slide cleanly, it will chamber the first round. ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2008
  10. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    CZ 75 variants all steel except
    and DA -or- SA Cocked & Locked as noted
    & Have a good rep. for reliability, accuracy,
    Good Value for the money

    These are the short in height frame 14 rd mag. cap.
    CZ 2075 "Romi" 3" Bbl. 26.6 oz
    CZ PCR 3.9" Bbl. 27.2 oz. w/alloy frame & De-Ccocker*
    CZ Compact 3.9" Bbl. 33.6 oz

    I plan on getting a CZ 75B Full size "Duo-TOne" which
    has the black polycoat slide/controls, and a satin nickel
    frame. MSRP is close to $600 but my gun dealer quoted
    me a price of $508 & after I found some on Gunbroker
    Standard blued around $ 450 by the time you add S&H &
    Transfer fee I might as well get the deal local.

    I wish they made a compact with the alloy frame that
    wasn't a "De-Cocker - they disable the thumb safety and
    it is used as the De-cocker function. I like the option of
    thumbing the safety on if i'm pausing in the field.
     
  11. m4coyote

    m4coyote Member

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    I can easily recommend the Kahr PM9. Mine has been very dependable, and it has flawlessly digested a couple thousand rounds now. The PM9 replaced the Kel Tec P3AT that I used to carry, and is much more accurate. My P3AT was always dependable, but would not hit the side of a barn from the inside. It might get one or two shots on an 8.5" X 11" target at 10 - 15 ft. My little PM9 will group within two inches at ten yards - all day long.
     
  12. Northalius

    Northalius Member

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    Whatever you get, make sure to have a backup! Even if that backup is a .32 or .22 Magnum, it's way better than nothing... if / when your primary clonks out on you. The most reliable brand name guns can FTF, FTE, or just have a kB from bad factory rounds! Never trust your life to just one gun! Get two (or more, if you can!).

    I'd personally just say: Suck it up, and at least put a Glock 26 SubCompact in IWB, or ankle carry it! Then get a nice backup gun for that. ;)
     
  13. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    Hk P7psp
     
  14. Dan-O

    Dan-O Member

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    Kahr PM9.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Second pic is the PM9 on the left, and the PM45 on the right

    [​IMG]

    Last pic is the PM9 on the bottom, PM45 in the middle, and a CW40 on top
     
  15. modifiedbrowning

    modifiedbrowning Member

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    Take a look at the Walther PPS.
     
  16. freebird

    freebird Member

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    Thanks guys! You are giving me some great options here that I did not even know were out there! Is the Glock 26 really small enough to ankle carry? I did not even know Walther had a 9mm that close to the Kel-Tec size. Are the Walther and Hk P7 just as accurate as the Kahr? If so I am sure they are also much better priced! Keep the good info coming! Thanks!
     
  17. Northalius

    Northalius Member

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    freebird, Glock Sub Compacts (G26, G27 (.40), G33 (.357 SIG) and G39 (.45 GAP)) can all be ankle carried.

    Go to www.GlockStore.com and on the list to the left you'll see "Ankle Holsters" click on that, and look at some of the pictures with Sub Glocks in their ankle holsters! Also keep in mind, the ones they show have a pinky extension, which you don't have to put on, so as to make it stick out less when concealing it on your ankle.

    While you're there, order their free paper catalog to be mailed to you! It's nice if you plan on buying a Glock! MANY aftermarket parts for Glocks! You'll be overwhelmed! :)

    The 9mm G26 can also use the 15, 17 and 33 round magazines, if you want! The 15 and 17 rounders are sometimes carried for "higher capacity backup mags" by those that like being prepared for SHTF situations. The 33 round G18 mags are used for special zombie defense (;)), or simply used for nice long range sesions... if you load up 5-7 of them. :D
     
  18. R&J

    R&J Member

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    Simple, Glock 26.

    Glock 19, if you want it to double for bedside duty.

    For from-the pocket-firing, look at a hammerless .38 special.

    --Ray
     
  19. Dan-O

    Dan-O Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I carried the PF9 religiously for about 8 months. I found it reliable enough, but now that I have made the move to the Kahr, the PF9 has become a safe queen. I still do carry one of my P38t's when I want something as minimal as possible.

    The Kahr PM9 outperforms my Keltecs in every facet. Yes, it is twice as much, but reliability, shootability, and accuracy are first in my book when choosing a gun that can save my life.
     
  20. tblt

    tblt member

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    I would go with the Khar before the kel tec.I have never shot either just going by what I have herd and what I would do.I have been looking at the CW-9 because of price.I would love to get the CZ rami because I love a gun with a hammer but it's much wider.
     
  21. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    Can't speak to the Walther as I don't own one, but I have two P7's. The P7 will be the most accurate of the bunch and probably be the most accurate pistol you've ever shot. They are heavier than all the others, but with a good holster and belt that is not a problem. Right now the German police trade in P7E's (what people are calling PSP's) are great deals right now at less than $700. Get one now.
     
  22. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    +1
     
  23. freebird

    freebird Member

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    Do they still make the Hk P7psp? I am on their site now and the smallest I see is a P2000SK would this be the smalles subcompact that H&K makes?
     
  24. freebird

    freebird Member

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    Well I made up a little chart compairing gun weights and sizes and it appears that the Kahr will be the route I will go. I really hate to spend the money on it because they are too overpriced. I like all the others listed but the Kahr seems to be the lightest and smallest. The others in weight and size are getting pretty close to being in the area of my Taurus PT-145. If that is the case I might as well just keep carrying the Taurus.

    For those of you who have shot many of the sub-compacts listed will the Kahr be just as accurate and reliable as the Glock 26 or the Walther or CZ's and H&K's? I know I am giving up some rounds with the Kahr but I am looking at lightweight/concealability and reliability. Let me know what you think. Thanks for all of the help!

    Specs Glock G26 9x19/ Taurus Mil Pro 111/ Walther 9mm PPS/ Kahr PM9
    Length 6.29"/ 6.125"/ 6.3"/ 5.3"
    Height 4.17"/ 5.125"/ 4.4"/ 4.0"
    Weight 19.75 oz/ 18.7 oz/ 19.4 oz/ 14 oz/
    Width 1.18"/ 1.125"/ 1.04"/ .90" Slide
    Cap 10/ 10 / 6 & 7 RD/ 6 & 7 RD/


    Specs Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm/ CZ Rami/ Taurus Mil Pro 145/HK P2000
    Length 6.7"/ 6.6"/ 6-1/8"/ 6.42"
    Height 4.3"/ 4.7"/ 5.125"/ 4.61
    Weight 21.7 oz/ 1.5 lbs/ 22.2 oz/ 1.4 lbs
    Width 1.2"/ 1.3"/ 1.25/ 1.28
    Cap 12/ 10/ 10/ 10


    Sorry The Chart Did Not Lay Out Correctly Once Sumbmitted.
     
  25. Northalius

    Northalius Member

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    In general, from my studying, the Kahr doesn't hold a candle to Glocks' reliability and durability (standing up to "the elements" without rusting); actually, I'd bet none of the guns listed do, either. Glocks have been through a multitude of torture tests over the many years they've been out, and they've gained the reputation for being one of thee most (if not, then THEE most) reliable semi-automatics in the world.

    The stock Glock 26 holds 11 rounds altogether (10+1), just to clarify for others. ;)

    You can get 2 round extensions, as well as being able to have a 15 or 17 round magazine for higher capacity backup mag.

    It's up to you, though. Give up reliability for a more comfortable carry? Or give up a little physical comfort for more of a MENTAL comfort, knowing your gun (Glock) WILL go "Bang" when it needs to?

    Up to you. :D

    I'd strongly suggest you go to the range and fire all of them; then, if you could, ask if you could try concealing the Glock IWB, ankle and pocket.

    The key to more comfortable carry is: GOOD holster (I'm checking out SmartCarry now), and good clothing (which might have to be a size bigger... no big deal!). Best to dress around your gun, which is a more reliable gun; rather than compromize reliability simply because the smaller mousegun is more comfortable to carry in your present clothes / holster.

    Just my opinion though.

    P.S. it's always smart to have a backup gun to any primary gun you have! "Just in case." ;)
     
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