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9mm for deer?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Starter52, Nov 2, 2005.

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  1. Starter52

    Starter52 Senior Member

    Oct 16, 2005
    Northeast USA
    We have a bit of a problem at my club and I could use some advice.

    There is an older gentleman who bought a 9mm carbine, one of those lightweight plastic ones. He's been shooting up the metal all fall, doing fairly well, and just announced that he plans on using the gun to hunt deer this month. Says he likes the handiness of the carbine when walking the hills.

    We are totally against this, of course; feeling that a 9mm is not at all adequate for deer. We've offered to loan his a more suitable gun, but he refuses. He IS going to use the 9mm carbine for deer. (This is legal here, with a 5-shot magazine.)

    Since his mind is made up, can anyone recommend a 9mm factory round for him to use? Hopefully he won't spot a deer this season, but if he does, is there a load that you could recommend?

    Any help would be appreciated. Prehaps there's a state trooper out there who's had to kill a deer with his service auto? Or someone with livestock experience? Some real-life experience with the 9mm carbine would be most welcome. Thanks.
  2. f4t9r

    f4t9r Senior Member

    May 27, 2005
    Like you I would recommend a bigger Cal. for deer
    maybe a special home defense round or something , really need to talk him into bigger than 9mm
  3. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Senior Member

    Oct 14, 2005
    Northwest Arkansas
    Believe it or not I've chronographed lone of these carbines and some 9mm loads from the rifle rival .357magnum velocities in a handgun. Some of the 124 gr hertenberger +P+ loads chronoed 1450 fps! I would reccomend staying away from personal defense ammo you need penatration and PD ammo won't deliver.

    Go with a good hardcast bullet with a nice flat point after all a 35 caliber hole has been killing deer for many a year.

    OR... you could use +P+ loaded gold dots and shootem in the neck-head:rolleyes:
  4. The Bushmaster

    The Bushmaster Senior Member

    Jan 29, 2005
    Ava, Missouri
    Why yes...I can recommend a good hunting round for this ol' geezer...Anything from .30-30 to what ever strikes his fancy. all (anything) except the "wonder nine" (capitals omitted deliberately). You have got to be kidding...How long has he been hunting and in a sane mind (also known as "right mind")...:banghead: That's like hittin' a GU11 with a BB gun...:what: :D
  5. karlsgunbunker

    karlsgunbunker Member

    Sep 18, 2005
    Indianapolis, IN
    First I'm not a Hunter

    These guy's use the Hi-Point Carbine to hunt on their ranch.


    Just throwing in some info for the debate.
  6. sumpnz

    sumpnz Senior Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Sedro-Woolley, WA
    Well, Barnes does make a 9mm handgun bullet. It's only 115gr, and in good conscience I can't reacommend it for deer hunting. But it may be one of the better choices out there for a generally inadequte caliber choice. It'd be fine for a close range head shot though.
  7. AnthonyRSS

    AnthonyRSS Member

    Apr 10, 2005
    N. Alabama
    There was someone on the boards that has taken deer with 1911 9mm and .45. Who was it? Don't remember off the top of my head...
  8. Lupinus

    Lupinus Senior Member

    Oct 6, 2005
    Upstate SC
    Im not an experienced deer hunter or anything but I would say he is crazy.

    Yeah the hold might be big enough but bullet size and the cartrige type are two different things. .32ACP is considered a weak round yet a 30-30 is a smaller bullet, and certianly smaller then a 9mm or .40, yet one of the most popular deer calibers ever more deer have arguably been killed by it then any other.

    Just bullet size is half the battle the bullet shape and cartridge is the other half of it.

    9mm would be a fine sidearm if you find the deer down but still alive but unless he plans to be about five feet from the deer Id vote agianst a 9mm.
  9. forquidder

    forquidder Member

    Dec 28, 2002
    Competent hunter

    It can be done with the 9mm cartridge and a competent rifleman OR pistolero.
    He would need to use a bullet weight/velocity similar to what he practices with or begin practicing with what he is going to hunt with so he knows where the bullet is going to impact and has his gun sighted in to that particular round.
  10. BigSlick

    BigSlick Member

    Feb 12, 2005
    Texas of Course
    Pool your funds, go buy a 18 lb beef brishet, set it up about 100 yds out, them have him shoot it with the 9mm carbine. Walk down and take a look, making sure he is able to see the devastation (sic).

    Walk back to the line and hit the brisket with a 30-30 (or another suitable round). Walk him down and take another look.

    If he can't recognize the obvious difference between the two, or still refuses to choose a round that can provide a humane kill, then take the gun away from him and have him committed to a mental institution.

    People like that are just stupid or too hard-headed to understand reason... plain and simple.

    If he is looking for light, a nice wood gripped 35 Remington 10" Contender will fit the bill nicely.

  11. MNgoldenbear

    MNgoldenbear Member

    Oct 21, 2005
    West Central Minnesota
    Impossible? No. Unwise? Quite likely. Other states have regulations on cartridges that are permissible. Is this not the case here? (Or is it simply a bore diameter restriction?) Yeah, he can probably get the cartridge performance up in the carbine barrel. If he loads, perhaps run it with a heavier bullet and slow powder. A comparison was made to the 357. Note that the 158 grain and heavier bullets are usually recommended for it, and it is still considered marginal for small deer at close range (granted, in a pistol). Not that an animal can't be killed by a 9mm, but it doesn't seem to be "enough gun" to give much leeway in distance or bullet placement. Is this guy good enough to hit where he needs to under field conditions and pass up questionable shots (distance, angle, etc.)? If not, he should shoot something heavier. Not that this relieves one of the responsibility for the previous criteria -- it simply makes it easier to meet them.
  12. danhei

    danhei New Member

    Aug 15, 2005
    Colorado has caliber and energy limits for rifle and handgun for big game. Rifle: .24 or greater and 1000 lb-ft at 100 yards. Handgun: .24 or greater and 550 lb-ft at 50 yards. Does your state have anything similar? There can't be a 9mm load on the planet that would qualify for handgun, much less rifle.
  13. redneck2

    redneck2 Senior Member

    Dec 25, 2002
    Northern Indiana
    Having worked in a gun shop, you can't believe the number of "experts" that would argue that a BB gun could kill an elephant. The level of stupidity continually amazed me

    My favorite was when .410 slugs were approved for deer. It amazed me how many guys thought this would be "the ultimate deer round". When I pointed out that it was a .41 caliber vs. .712 for a 12 gauge, the same speed and 1/5th of the weight, they just stood there slack-jawed

    Can it work? Yeah, about anything can work in the right circumstances. The poacher's favorite weapon is a spotlight and .22 but it's far from ideal.

    With an individual like this, I suspect there is no amount of logic that would persuade him. Unfortunately it's the deer that will suffer.
  14. BluesBear

    BluesBear member

    Jul 25, 2003
    The Great Pacific NorthWet
    I'd advise against it. But if he is set in his ways make sure he knows that shotplacement will be extremely crucial to prevent wounding and needless suffering.

    There have been many whitetail deer taken with .357 handguns. 9mm from a carbine should be able to do it with a proper load.
  15. Doug b

    Doug b Member

    Oct 24, 2005
    NW Ohio
    "Fairly well" will not be good enough with a round that is designed to wound not kill.I hope the old geezer is just going woods bumming and not really into the hunt.
  16. antarti

    antarti Member

    May 6, 2005
    I've used my M1 carbine for woods hunting of deer and boar, and it works quite well with the Federal softpoints. We are talking 110grn @ 2000fps, but ranges not exceeding 50-75 yards MAX. There is no visibility beyond 30-75 yards where I hunt; thick stuff.

    I love light and handy carbines in the woods, to the point I eschew everything else. Even if he's looking at bow-hunting distance, I'd still call a 9mm marginal, and I'm predisposed toward what he seems to like. He's going a little too light.

    Can you talk him into a Mech-Tech in .460 Rowland? That would make a nice thumper for woods ranges.
  17. wolf_from_wv

    wolf_from_wv Member

    Jan 26, 2005
    North Central WV
    In WV, it is a "rifle using centerfire ammunition"...

    Do the WinClean bullets have an exposed lead tip?

    Gold Dot +P+ (HiPoints are rated +P+)
  18. mohican

    mohican Member

    Apr 28, 2003
    somewhere in the buckeye state
    not ideal, but.......

    maybe at close range with the heavier (147gr?) solid or hollopoint? It would be about the same proposition as shooting deer with a .357 handgun. It probably won't do what I like a deer round to do, break both shoulders and exit. But at say 50 yards and under with a heart shot from 1/4 away presentation I would say barely adequate.

    When handgun hunting became legal during the mid 80s, I killed several deer cleanly with a .357 before experts convinced me that .44 mag was the minimum :D
  19. ChristopherG

    ChristopherG Senior Member

    Jan 7, 2003
    Central WA
    Okay, it's a bad idea, but that's obviously not the question. The question was, what factory load would be the best of a bad lot, and here is my proposal for an answer:

    a 147 gr. Gold Dot bullet loaded by Georgia arms to +p levels.


    Best chance of adequate penetration with expansion to damage the boiler room once it's in there. Tell him to avoid bones, and make sure he knows where to shoot, and takes only a broadside shot.
  20. therealsteamer

    therealsteamer New Member

    May 23, 2005
    NW Ohio but dreamin' of Shreveport

    I did't go through the website that u gave very well to see that they actually use the highpoint carbine, but IIRC (gone to get current handbook) in Ohio the minimal caliber to hunt deer is .357 a 9mm is .355. if this is the case that would make hunting with a 9mm illegal. Right?:confused: :uhoh:

    From the 2005-2005 Ohio hunting regulations

    Gun Season and Youth Deer Gun Season:

    10, 12, 16, 20, 28, or .410 gauge shotgun using one ball or one rifled slug per barrel (rifled shotgun barrels are permitted when using shotgun slug ammunition); or muzzleloading rifle .38 caliber or larger; or handgun with 5-in. minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger.
    Also isn't the 9 considered a tapered case?
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