9mm load-next steps

[DIY-Pete]

If I have missed a resource that will answer my question please feel free to point me in that direction.

I have been working up my first load. My goal for this load is to make an accurate range load that is reliable and similar in recoil to my carry load (135gr critical defense).

Load data: 9mm
Mixed Brass
Winchester primers
124 gr Berrys Bullets
5.5gr VV 3N37
COAL 1.155

VV doesn't list data for Berrys so I used data for 124gr Rainier since they are both plated bullets with similar profiles. (starting load is listed at 5.4 gr, / Max 6.0gr)

What I have done:
I have tested ten rounds through my pistol and it cycled just fine brass was ejected like normal and recoil was similar to factory rounds. I did gauge the finished rounds with a Lyman cartridge gauge and performed the plunk test with my barrel. I also made a few dummy rounds (no primmer or powder) to make sure the rounds would cycle in my mags and chamber properly.

At the range I loaded one round into a full Mag and ran the entire mag except for my round and then I checked it for setback with the Mic and it was still at the correct COAL.

So whats next? I don't have a chronograph. I am hoping I can talk one of the guys in my pistol league into running a few rounds for me just so I can see how they are performing. I need to run a bunch of rounds to verify reliability and assess accuracy. I was thinking 50 to 100 rounds at 50 foot.

Pistol is an FNS-9mm with a Trijicon RM-02 and suppressor sights. Other than the sights it is bone stock as it is my carry gun.

Thanks
Pete

 

[Walkalong]

My goal for this load is to make an accurate range load that is reliable and similar in recoil to my carry load

So how did they feel in comparison? 5.5 is going to be fairly light I believe. Are you trying for a certain power factor?

You might try loading 25 each of 5.5 and 5.7 and try them out for accuracy, function, and felt recoil.

Welcome to THR

 

[DIY-Pete]

So how did they feel in comparison? 5.5 is going to be fairly light I believe. Are you trying for a certain power factor?

You might try loading 25 each of 5.5 and 5.7 and try them out for accuracy, function, and felt recoil.

Welcome to THR

I was shooting 115 factory rounds at the time I was testing my loads and they felt the same to me but I am not the best judge. I have tried to pick out 115 standard load compared to 124+P with no success. I don't have a certain power factor in mind. My main goal of accuracy is to help me improve as a shooter. If my gun and bullets are accurate to Point of Aim then any variation can be attributed to me and any mistakes in form I make.

Thats why I am shooting my 9 in league, it adds a little pressure to the situation and exposes bad habits. I will load up 25 rounds each at 5.5 and 5.7 and see if I can perceive a difference in recoil or accuracy.

Thanks
Pete

 

[Dudedog]

Welcome to THR, lots of great people here.

As far as feeling the same you are the only Judge that matters. Chrono numbers etc are nice but if your not concerned with making a power factor then function, accuracy and feel are
are what matter. (well of course Safety, that should be first in the list)
If they feel the same to you, recoil, muzzle flip etc and the POI is the same as 135gr defense loads you use then you are set.
I haven't used 3N37 but I would listen to Walkalongs advice and maybe try a bit more. (Walkalong has probably forgotten more about reloading than I know )
I have found with some other slow (for 9mm) powders that they shoot better as the charge increases.

Everybody has their own opinion about practice ammo. I like to load some to match factory vels just to keep the feel, but most of what I shoot for practice is in the middle of the range for 9mm. 124gr bullet at around 1050fps.
A bit more pleasant to shoot if your shooting a bunch (say 500 rnds) in a session.
(of course after shooting the .45 all the 9 stuff feels light )

The important thing is practice.

Everyone has there favorite powder but for practice ammo you might want to try something a little faster burn speed wise than 3N37.
On the faster side I like HP38 or Universal and bit slower WSF. I have never used N340 but had good results with N320(fairly fast). If you like VV powders one of those might be better for less than full power loads if you ever want to load any.

I don't know if anybody warned you but reloading may not save you any money, it doesn't save me a dime but I shoot 3 times as much.

 

[AzShooter1]

Sounds like you found a good starting point. Next is to test for accuracy and function. You want 100 per cent function and groups depend on what you are satisfied with.

I've been using 124 grain lead bullet and with my Red Dot Scope I can get clover leafs at 15 yards. Under 1.5 inches at 25 yards using VV N320.

 

[DIY-Pete]

Thanks for the input guys it is much appreciated. I double checked berrys bullets site and they say to not exceed 1250fps with their bullets and after double checking the VV load data the Max load doesn't make that velocity but it's close. I think I will most definitely run a batch of 50 with 5.7gr and see how they handle compared to the 5.5 loads.

Dudedog,
One of the main reasons I went with 3N37 was the fact that it took some of the largest loads in grains and it's a somewhat bulky powder. Both of those things will help prevent the dreaded double powder charge. I checked and a double charge overflows the case. I can see the addictive side of this process. I already have my next trial load working through my brain. I'm willing to bet this saves me zero money but I'm ok with that. I know the wife is ok with it because it keeps me in the basement and out of her hair.

I am assuming that it is not a good thing, for my wallet, that I live within easy driving distance of Brownells
Pete

 

[BYJO4]

Your post indicates that you are getting good accuracy and complete reliability with your current load so the only thing I would do is load a few batches increasing the powder by .1 gr on each batch to see if you notice any improvement. You may very well have your perfect load already.

 

[thomas15]

Pete, it isn't as easy to double charge 9mm than let's say 38 special or 45 ACP. I haven't used 3N37 but I do use N320 (sometimes) for both 38 and 9mm. Off the top of my head the charge is less than what you are using (somewhere around 4 grains) with a 124g plated bullet and the case is full enough that if you tried a double charge then either the case will over flow or it will be high enough that you will notice if you check each case, which you should.

I understand your caution and appreciate that your trying to avoid dumb mistakes. This is not the kind of pastime that one should be casual about. 9mm though is fairly easy to spot a double charge if you are careful which I believe you are.

N320 while expensive (as are all VV powders) is a good pistol powder for soft loads. I would not use it IF the intention is to push the velocity to the limit. Another powder to consider besides HP-38 (and W231 same thing), Universal and WSF already mentioned is Titegroup. With this powder you have to be a bit more careful regarding double charges because the powder is more compact but I'm sure you will still find that at least half of the case is filled with a single charge.

You are going to discover that different guns react differently to your handloads. My BUG (G26) uses a 124g Berrys RN with 4.0g TG, my G17 likes the 147g plated with the same powder. In either one of the guns I can shoot a 147g plated using anything from 3.2g TG to 4.0 g (or maybe a bit more) with good results.

Just make sure you not exceeding the published limits and be safe.

 

[Conservidave]

Finding accuracy in the 9mm at 15yds wont be difficult especially with plated. Be sure to shoot from a rest and try a few of your carry loads to judge your reloads. You might be surprised at the results! Keep us posted

 

[Sunray]

"...both plated bullets..." That and the weight are all that matters. Who made 'em doesn't.
"...don't have a chronograph..." You don't need one.
"...starting load is listed at 5.4 gr, / Max 6.0gr..." Work up the load by loading 5 at 5.4 and go up by 1/10 to the 6.0. Shoot off a rest for group only to find the load that your pistol shoots best.
"...an accurate range load that is reliable and similar in recoil to my carry load..." You must practice with the ammo you intend using.

 

[Mad Chemist]

"...both plated bullets..." That and the weight are all that matters. Who made 'em doesn't.
"...don't have a chronograph..." You don't need one.
"...starting load is listed at 5.4 gr, / Max 6.0gr..." Work up the load by loading 5 at 5.4 and go up by 1/10 to the 6.0. Shoot off a rest for group only to find the load that your pistol shoots best.
"...an accurate range load that is reliable and similar in recoil to my carry load..." You must practice with the ammo you intend using.

You absolutely do not need to practice with expensive factory loads. This is bogus advice. What you must do is run enough of the factory loads to ensure reliable function in your pistol. What you can do as a reloader, is tune a load that matches your factory load for POA/POI. However, at short ranges deviations in POA/POI are hardly noticeable.

I use 3n37 for my full power 9mm loads. It's a great powder for that function but it likes to run at higher pressure. 5.5gr may be a little light.

 

[vaalpens]

Thanks for the input guys it is much appreciated. I double checked berrys bullets site and they say to not exceed 1250fps with their bullets and after double checking the VV load data the Max load doesn't make that velocity but it's close. I think I will most definitely run a batch of 50 with 5.7gr and see how they handle compared to the 5.5 loads.

Looks like you are on the right path and you are getting some great advice.

Since you are trying to get to the feel of your SD ammo, you probably are going to increase the velocity as per Walkalong's suggestion. In that case I would suggest you use the Berry's HBFP-TP or HBRN-TP bullets instead of the regular plated. The TP bullets have a thicker plating and should be more stable at higher velocities.

Once you feel comfortable with what you doing, then do some research and expand your bullet and powder selections. You will find some great information on the THR forum regarding powder and bullet selection.

Good luck and be safe.

 

[DIY-Pete]

Lots more info to digest. I made up a batch of 50 with a 5.5gr load last night and will run a batch with 5.7 later this week. I will report back after testing at the range this weekend.

vaalpens,
I was not aware that the TP bullets from Berrys had a thicker plating, they have been added to my "buy" list.

Pete

 

[Mad Chemist]

I have driven these exact bullets at 5.9gr seated to 1.14" with no problems. You won't be able to exceed 1200fps with a regular pistol without exceeding the max posted load for the plated Rainier bullets.

 

[Dudedog]

I am assuming that it is not a good thing, for my wallet, that I live within easy driving distance of Brownells

Ok for those of us who are old enough I say
Danger Danger Will Robinson

Just as a FYI Universal is less dense than 3N37 (takes up more space) HP38/W231 (same powder different name) and WSF are about the same as 3N37
(I am not saying you should change powders just giving some examples)

If you have the VMD for a powder you can get an idea of how dense it is. Lower VMD = more dense = takes up less space, higher VMD = less dense = takes up more space.

VMD * Charge weight in grains = CC
5.5gr of 3N37 takes up about .5 CC (5.5*.091)
4.3gr of HP38 takes up about .4 CC (4.3*.092)
4.3gr of Universal takes up about .47 CC (4.3*.109)
4.6gr of WSF takes up about .43 CC (4.6*.092) (my WSF is less dense than the listed VMD of .084)
4gr of Titegroup takes up about .33 CC (4*.0847)

I have a spreadsheet setup to do the calcs for different charges and different powders. The Lee Pro disk uses disks with holes measured in CC to throw powder so you can work backwards to get an idea of what a disk will throw. .40CC disk = 4.3gr of HP38.



The numbers I used for charges of the other powders are in the listed range of charges for 9mm with a 124gr bullet but if you decide to use a different powder follow your manual or the Powder companies data and work up from a start charge.
Powder companies list a VMD for their powders sometimes they are really close to what is measured sometimes they are off a bit. WSF example above listed .084 measured .092.

As you can see Titegroup takes up a lot less space for a typical 9mm charge than some other powders making it easier to miss spotting a double charge.
I like Titegroup OK but would not recommend it for new reloaders. It tends to get spikey at the high end of the charge range IMO. (less forgiving than some other powders)

IMO it is not necessary to practice with the actual SD load you use. It is very important to shoot enough of them to make sure you have no feed or other issues in your firearm with them. Just me but I would consider a test of 40-50 rounds a minimum.
I mostly practice with loads a little lighter than my normal SD loads but the difference is minor and I can generally feel a 30-50fps difference in 9mm with a 124gr bullet. POA/POI with my milder loads is very close to the SD stuff at typical handgun distances.

Anyway I hope your loads work out well for you and you enjoy loading your own.

 

[DIY-Pete]

Range Report:
So I made it to the range today and ran 100 rounds of my reloads. 50 with 5.5gr of 3N37 and the other 50 with 5.7gr. I also ran 20 rounds of factory 115 FMJ.

All rounds cycled in my FNS just fine. The 5.5gr load was a little weak with brass ejection but was fairly accurate and clean. The 5.7gr load was the most accurate and tossed the brass in a similar fashion to the factory rounds. There were no signs of over pressure that I could see. I am very happy with this load (5.7) and am going to call it a done deal for now. I just need to get a bunch made up for pistol league.

I want to thank everyone for their help.

Pete

 

[Dudedog]

Your welcome.

Glad they worked out.