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9mm NATO vs 9mm luger

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by SorenityNow, Dec 10, 2011.

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  1. SorenityNow

    SorenityNow Member

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    Hey all, the other day at my range I saw some Winchester Ranger 9mm Nato ammo. The great thing is that it was only about $12 a box. Would this make a good alternative load to my hollow point ammo?, and can I shoot this ammo out of my Glocks? Any feedback would be great. My SD load is always 124 gr Speer Gold dot, but if I can load up on good Nato ammo at HALF the price then I will. Thanks everyone
     
  2. beeenbag

    beeenbag Member

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    It will shoot in your glock but most likely it is fmj if it is NATO. All NATO is is an international way of "naming" calibers, mainly for military purposes. This is why 7.62 by 51 is also known as .308 win. The geneiva convention banned all hollow point ammo for combat usage. Therefore if it is labeled NATO it's probably fmj and not a #1 choice for defense ammo. There is more to the story if you care to look it up. I personally have never seen 9mm ranger "nato" rounds so you may be on to something being as ranger ammo is a hollow point. 5.56 NATO is a higher pressure .223 rem. So it might be like a +p or something. Pardon any grammer or spelling, I hate this ipod, it thinks it is so much smarter than I am.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  3. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    Actually it was the Hague Convention, which we're technically not signatories of, though we honor most of what it laid out as a good faith gesture anyways.

    In any event, yep, 9mm NATO is 9x19mm Luger. The NATO loading in particular is usually a hotter 124gr load, but its still just a particular type of 9mm Luger - various commercial loadings are of various power factors.

    Personally if you want a relatively hot practice load and don't want to reload, go to AIM Surplus and pickup some of the Aguila 124gr FMJ's they have. They're loaded a lot hotter than most domestically produced 9mm stuff and they're $9.95 per box.
     
  4. beeenbag

    beeenbag Member

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    Learn something everyday, thanks for the correction.
     
  5. usp9

    usp9 Member

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    The NATO ammo is excellent practice ammo as it is a higher pressure round than normal cheap practice ammo. Were I you, I'd stick to a quality self defense round to carry IMHO.
     
  6. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    No, it would not be a good alternative. I will likely be a bit hotter, but it isn't optimized for defensive use
     
  7. Carter

    Carter Member

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    I use the winchester ranger nato ammo for practice. There are great deals for it online if you buy it in bulk.

    My brother read one of the boxes one day while he was in town for my wedding (he's in the Navy) and saw the LE only line and asked how I was able to buy it. I was tempted to be a smart ass with a exaggerated shady story, but I just set a few things straight.


    Anywhoooo, great ammo, but wouldn't want to use it for SD. Just think of the Indiana Jones scene where he shoots through 6 people with 9mm fmj...just not as extreme.
     
  8. legion3

    legion3 Member

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    Its good practice ammo and it would be good stok up and have SHTF defense ammo if you had to use it as such but quality hollow points would still be better all the way around.

    I like it to use for practice because my carry round is the Ranger 127 +P+ or the HST 124 +P and I need the hot NATO or some of the hot European ammo in the 124 flavor to come close to matching the feel of the +P+.
     
  9. GaryM

    GaryM Member

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    9mm Nato = 9mm Luger = 9mm Parabellum = 9x19.
    Different names for the same thing. Watch out for a "+P" though, same ammo but loaded hotter.
     
  10. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Not the same.

    According to a couple of sources on the web, the SAAMI pressure for 9mm Luger ammo is around 35,000 PSI, while the 9mm NATO rounds are rated at 36,500 PSI.

    That means the 9mm NATO ammo is roughly equivalent to a 9mm +P load, which SAAMI rates around 36,000 PSI.
     
  11. 481

    481 Member

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    Well, since the Glock 17 is rated to safely fire ammo loaded to 3000 bar (that's 43500 psi) it oughtta be able to handle the NATO stuff without a problem.

    Looks like the OP can buy all that he wants and blast away to his heart's content.
     
  12. gofastman

    gofastman Member

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    9mm+P has a max pressure of 38,500psi, 9mm NATO is sort of in the middle of regular and +P.
    Yes I agree. It is my feeling the 9mm glocks are designed to optimally function with 9mm NATO, which is why I'm such a proponent of +P ammo in them for serious use.
     
  13. barneyrw

    barneyrw Member

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    There's nothing wrong with FMJ ammo for defense. The world has been fighting wars with it for a 100 years. Forty some years ago, .45 acp and 5.56 FMJ worked just fine for me.
     
  14. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    There are right and wrong places to use certain bullet styles. I'd prefer hard cast over hollow point for woods carry SD but swap that for home defense or urban carry. It's the reason so many styles still exist and so few are obsolete.
     
  15. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    As mentioned in post #3, that is do to following the guidelines set down at the Hague Convention.

    As private citizens, those restrictions do not apply to prevent the use of ammunition optimized for defensive use
     
  16. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    Just because the military has been using it for a long time doesn't mean it is the best choice. There has been a generational leap in bullet technology in the last 25 years, which makes premium JHP ammo vastly more effective than previous loads. But the military, NATO, et al, are so overloaded by beurocracy and misplaced fear of public concern, they won't catch up. The 9mm NATO load is 100 year-old technology.

    I would use it for practice in any modern firearm, but I would use something else for defensive carry. I might also add, if it were a .45, I would be much less concerned about carrying FMJ loads. 9mm is faster and smaller, and less likely to stop.
     
  17. barneyrw

    barneyrw Member

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    FMJ is just fine for defensive loads. A lot of people have seen too many zombie movies. If it will put down an enemy soldier, it will certainly stop someone breaking into your house. Now some of the specialty loads will have more stopping power but again we aren't dealing with crazed zombies.
     
  18. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    All bullets are deadly. But some are much more likely to stop than others. Fast 9mm FMJ is near the bottom of the list. If FMJ is fine for defensive loads, find any reputable instructor or police agency that uses them.

    All handgun rounds suck. None of them are good enough. You need to give yourself every possible advantage when you are fighting for your life. When a bad guy twice your size is charging, you don't want the last thing to go through your mind to be; "I REALLY should have gone with the hollow-points." It's not as much of an advantage as some guys think it is, but it absolutely is an advantage, and I will use it.
     
  19. cactus02

    cactus02 Member

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    The advantage to the Winchester "NATO" ammo is that it is mil spec sealed while most other brands of fmj are not. Also the Winchester "NATO" ammo is taper crimped much tighter than practice ammo so it has has much higher pull resistance and somewhat looser fit in chambers for reliability. I pulled a couple with a press mounted puller and had a real battle getting the round apart while practice winchester WB , Speer,Federal and Remington are seperated with little effort and are not sealed. PMC has sealer in segments around the bullet but not fully around and does not appear to seal primers. FWIW
     
  20. Apocalypse-Now

    Apocalypse-Now Member

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    winchester has been making fmj ammo in 9mm and 40cal under the ranger brand name for years.
     
  21. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    Not sure the reference there. Zombie movies have never stressed stopping power or round size in the least. As a matter of fact they only seem to need a hit to the head - regardless of size. Accuracy is promoted to the extreme above power.

    Indeed, it would seem that you're making the mistake you're accusing others of, as unlike in movies, people do sometime require multiple hits from a handgun to go down, and JHP IS better at that than FMJ.
     
  22. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    FMJ rounds have a chance to overpenetrate and keep going down range, unlike JHP rounds which are designed to stop in the target.

    Use FMJ rounds for home defense, if you don't mind shooting through the walls of your residence and if you don't like your neighbors.
     
  23. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    FMJ pistol ammo is the worst type of ammo to use to shoot humans. Anyone who believes otherwise is delusional.

    FMJ pistol rounds are notorious for 'ice pick' wounds where the bullet just makes a small hole and keeps going. They are also the worst for over penetrating and ricochet.

    Unless it's disallowed you should be be using some type of expanding ammunition if you might need to shoot a person.

    BSW
     
  24. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    ALL defensive ammo is likely to 'overpenetrate' a human target. If it wasn't, I wouldn't use it. If you are using JHP ammo because it won't go through someone, do some homework. It is meant to penetrate at least 12" in ballistic gel. You want ot ti make a bigger hole all the way through a human target, not halfway.
     
  25. SigP229R

    SigP229R Member

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    I agree with USP9 on this one.
     
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