9mm Neck Tension Issues (random)

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Alex G

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Hello All,
I know this question may have been asked before in past threads (and I spent the last hour reading them) but nothing seems to have addressed my issue. I’ve also been loading for 6+ years without any issue like this.

A bit of background specs before I begin:
Press-LNL AP
Sizing die-Mighty Armory TNT Match (screwed all the way down to contact the shellholder for maximum neck tension, located on a Lee APP press)
Flaring Die-Lyman M-Die for 9mm
Powder measure-Hornady with no expander installed
Seater die-Lee (set to seat and crimp in one step. Yes, my crimp is correct, I’ve pulled bullets to check)
Projectiles being used-124 gr. X-treme RN, all sized to .3555 or .3560.

For background context, I recently loaded 1k cast lead 9mm rounds, as well as 500+ hi-tek coated and close to 1000 Berry’s plated rn and FP, all with zero issues.

I began my loading session with this projectile as normal-adjusting the seating depth to be correct, and adjusting the flare to be just enough to allow the bullet to sit into the case mouth without tipping when the shellplate rotates. I verified powder charge, and loaded the case feeder and began loading. About 10 cases in, I noticed a projectile had dropped into the case after being placed by the Mr. bulletfeeder die. I stopped, cleared the shellplate and shut off case feed. Checking the 15 loaded rounds at that point by pushing the bullet nose against the press frame lead to 3 other bullets seating back into the case as a lack of neck tension. This is when I measured the bullets to ensure they weren’t undersize. My second thought was that the 3 cases didn’t size properly or had not been sized. I pulled the bullets, and ran the cases through the sizing die with decapping pin removed. Inside case diameter was 3 thousandths under bullet diameter of .355, or actually .352 This is correct and has worked properly for 1500+ previous rounds. (Oh, and I also ran .3550 sized JHP’s with no setback issues)
I noticed on the cases that fail, that the case passes easily on the expander with very little effort most of the time, and the same with seating, even though it’s sized properly. As an added measure, I sprayed the expander mandrel with brake-kleen to ensure no oil residue was contaminating the case walls, but to no avail.

What is causing this issue? Are the cases just trash at this point/only good for oversized .356 projectiles? Any help/advice greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
are all the cases that fail the same headstamp? measure the neck tension on the outside, before and after seating and see what the actual tension is by how much it expands the case. Might give a different perspective. Is there any lube or anything inside the case? residue etc?
 
are all the cases that fail the same headstamp?
Nope, I’d read that in another thread and decided to watch and see. The majority are FC and Blazer, however there are some remingtons, and some winchesters too.
Is there any lube or anything inside the case? residue etc?
Nope, all cases are wet tumbled beforehand and are perfectly clean.
 
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Well... Either the expander is expanding the case too much or the bullets are too small.

Do the bullets push into the case without expanding the case mouth? Maybe the sizing die is too large and not sizing down the case enough?
 
Well... Either the expander is expanding the case too much or the bullets are too small.

Do the bullets push into the case without expanding the case mouth? Maybe the sizing die is too large and not sizing down the case enough?
“This is when I measured the bullets to ensure they weren’t undersize. My second thought was that the 3 cases didn’t size properly or had not been sized. I pulled the bullets, and ran the cases through the sizing die with decapping pin removed. Inside case diameter was 3 thousandths under bullet diameter of .355, or actually .352 This is correct and has worked properly for 1500+ previous rounds. (Oh, and I also ran .3550 sized JHP’s with no setback issues)”
Also see my previous note in the specs that all bullets sized between .3555 and .3560
 
Do the bullets push into the case without expanding the case mouth?
No. Also see my comment that I adjusted the M-Die to flare just enough that the bullet will sit without tipping over. No disrespect, but it doesn’t seem like you read the original post very thoroughly.
 
Here are the cases that failed on neck tension. 9 FC, 11 Blazer (and most likely would’ve been more had I not removed all blazer from the second batch of a hundred), 2 PMC and 2 Win.
F6D6C5B9-C462-426E-A6C8-4348AD0AC052.jpeg
 
No. Also see my comment that I adjusted the M-Die to flare just enough that the bullet will sit without tipping over. No disrespect, but it doesn’t seem like you read the original post very thoroughly.

The Lyman m-dies expander insert is known for working loose over time and back out, which will lead to over expanding of the brass. May be worthwhile to check to make sure the insert is still on tight.
 
The Lyman m-dies expander insert is known for working loose over time and back out, which will lead to over expanding of the brass. May be worthwhile to check to make sure the insert is still on tight.
Definitely a good thing to check for, happened to me a while back so I used some blue loctite on it. It’s still tight, but thanks for the suggestion!
 
Are you sizing your brass on the Lee APP or on the LnL? You stated you adjusted the sizing die to bottom out on the shell plate...but on the Lee APP or the LnL?

How long have you been using this sizing die?
 
Sizing die-Mighty Armory TNT Match (screwed all the way down to contact the shellholder for maximum neck tension, located on a Lee APP press)

Would you please clarify the above sentence for me? Are you sizing on a separate press?

I seem to remember that I had problems with my LNL AP when I didn't have my powder drop set just right. I make sure I've got a full rotation of the rotor, but I also leave a bit of room at the top of the rotor stroke for different length cases (I don't pay much attention to case length). I've seen some issues when I happened to set the rotor throw tight to the top of the slot on a short case and then along comes a longer case. Just a hair of wiggle room.

I mention this just in case but I really think it's got to be something with sizing.
 
I would also suspect this is a die problem, of some sort. My first thought was gunk buildup on the expander causing it to expand to a wider diameter than you want, but saw you cleaned it with brake cleaner so that isn't it. The only other potential source of the problem would be if your expander is loose or moving randomly.

I've had my share of problems over the years and dies can be a frustrating one if you catch the issue of something coming loose deep in to a reloading session. Like an expander coming out in to a rifle case and stopping your progressive press cold in it's tracks. Or (worse) forgetting to tighten a crimp die and realizing x-hundred of cases in that you haven't crimped anything since ??? because the die backs off.

It can be very tough to spot something loose if it only moves a fraction of a rotation every so often. I got in to the habit of paint marking my dies, especially on the progressive, so I can keep track of if they have moved during/since my last session.
 
Too, when I start having problems like this and I can’t find it pretty quick, I start over from scratch. Reset everything. I can’t think of a time when that didn’t work.
 
Here are the cases that failed on neck tension. 9 FC, 11 Blazer (and most likely would’ve been more had I not removed all blazer from the second batch of a hundred
I reload on a RCBS RockChucker , as for 9x19 regarding FC and blazer the resistance to resize the cases falls into three groups for me. Hard to resize medium to resize and easy to resize. I toss the easy to resize and reload the hard and medium separately. This works for me.
 
Are you sizing your brass on the Lee APP or on the LnL?
Sizing on the Lee APP. I’ve sized probably 30,000+ pieces of 9mm on it so far, and every 500 cases the two guide rods get greased, and the case feed slider track cleaned, so it’s in good shape.
How long have you been using this sizing die?
At this point a couple months, with absolutely zero issues. Measurements on the blazer brass correspond to that of S&B (which I had zero neck tension issues with this batch) and the others, so I don’t think it’s an issue with sizing, but of the brass itself.
 
I make sure I've got a full rotation of the rotor, but I also leave a bit of room at the top of the rotor stroke for different length cases
Correct, I actually set mine up exactly like this too, to account for variances in case length.
 
Sizing on the Lee APP. I’ve sized probably 30,000+ pieces of 9mm on it so far, and every 500 cases the two guide rods get greased, and the case feed slider track cleaned, so it’s in good shape.

At this point a couple months, with absolutely zero issues. Measurements on the blazer brass correspond to that of S&B (which I had zero neck tension issues with this batch) and the others, so I don’t think it’s an issue with sizing, but of the brass itself.

My experience with 9mm that’ve been loaded maybe 6 - 8x is primer pockets get a little loose and primers seat too easy. At that point, I pitch that batch.
 
TNT = Tighter Neck Tension. But apparently you’re experiencing just the opposite.
Suggest trying another brand of sizing die.
 
If the neck tension of the brass on your bullets is not consistent your reloads will suck.
 
TNT = Tighter Neck Tension. But apparently you’re experiencing just the opposite.
Suggest trying another brand of sizing die.

I’m 2x here. If you’ve got another brand handy, plug ‘em in for awhile and see what happens.

I did wander over to Mighty Armory and poked around a bit. Not my cup of tea. Supposedly you can set up a sizer in 4 minutes? Should be pretty straight forward especially if they’ve worked for you before. MA has a pretty good rep on here.

send in a relief pitcher for awhile.

BTW, you can still read the headstamps clearly. Doubt you’re problems brassy.
 
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