shevrock
Member
Well i'm Looking at pistols for the future, and and have a small question. For a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI what would be better. 45acp or 9mm. I'm not sure about the difference between them, so i need some assistance.
9MM or 45.
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Zak Smith
Member
I advocate 9mm for a defense pistol caliber because: skill is more important than gear; 9mm is cheaper to train with; and the difference in terminal performance between a good defense bullet and a poor one in the same caliber is more than the difference caliber to caliber.
sig228
Member
Does it matter?
Presuming TEOTWAWKI happens through a thermo nuclear exchange, you ain't going to be around. Nor will your nine.
Presuming TEOTWAWKI happens through a thermo nuclear exchange, you ain't going to be around. Nor will your nine.
ugaarguy
Member
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- Mar 19, 2006
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- 13,828
Zak hit the nail on the head. In addition 9mm is softer recoiling than .45 ACP in otherwise identical guns. You'll also find a much wider variety of guns in 9mm than .45 ACP so finding a gun that fits you will be easier.
If SHTF/TEOTAWKI happens having a gun you know how to use well will be worth far more than it being in a specific caliber. However, 9mm is the US Armed Forces' standard round and it's more plentiful than .45 ACP in commercial target ammo too; so 9mm is more likely to be available. Last, if you're really worried about SHTF .22 LR the most widely available round in the US. It's light enough to carry large amounts of, and cheap enough to easily stock up on.
If SHTF/TEOTAWKI happens having a gun you know how to use well will be worth far more than it being in a specific caliber. However, 9mm is the US Armed Forces' standard round and it's more plentiful than .45 ACP in commercial target ammo too; so 9mm is more likely to be available. Last, if you're really worried about SHTF .22 LR the most widely available round in the US. It's light enough to carry large amounts of, and cheap enough to easily stock up on.
Zhivago
Member
In another thread, someone made the point that while .22 LR is not the ideal self defense round, I've never seen anyone line up to get shot with one for giggles. More likely than not, the threat of physical violence in most situations is more effective than actual violence.
Halo
Member
shevrock, the two calibers differ in several ways. Cartridge notation is based on the caliber of the bullet, which is either in fractions of an inch or in millimeters. The 9mm is about 0.355 inches and the .45 is, naturally, right around .45 inches. The .45 bullet is not only larger in diameter, but it also typically fires a heavier bullet (almost twice the weight of a 9mm bullet). This heavier bullet travels slower, about 850 feet per second versus approx. 1100 feet per second with the 9mm. Hopefully that helps you understand the basic differences between them a bit more.
Now as for which one you should pick, well I think you'll quickly learn this is a long standing debate that takes on a religious quality for many people! Personally, I agree with those who recommend the 9mm. It offers you the advantages of: more rounds in your pistol, less recoil, cheaper ammo, and it is the same round carried by almost every military on the planet.
A good idea would be to go to a range where you can try out a few pistols in both calibers and see which one you like best.
Now as for which one you should pick, well I think you'll quickly learn this is a long standing debate that takes on a religious quality for many people!
Personally, I agree with those who recommend the 9mm. It offers you the advantages of: more rounds in your pistol, less recoil, cheaper ammo, and it is the same round carried by almost every military on the planet.A good idea would be to go to a range where you can try out a few pistols in both calibers and see which one you like best.
AStone
Member
9 mm v .45 ACP?
I think this topic was
discussed once before.
Oh, no, wait,
a thousand times.
But what the hey,
one more time ...
Then, buy a .357 mag
with a carbine to match ...
I think this topic was
discussed once before.
Oh, no, wait,
a thousand times.
But what the hey,
one more time ...
Then, buy a .357 mag
with a carbine to match ...
C-grunt
Member
In a true SHTF fall of society I think 9mm would be the way to go. Holds good amounts of ammo, its a military rouns so there is a lot stockpiled, and it has better penetration for shooting through cover.
Well I would actually say 2nd to a good .22lr.
Well I would actually say 2nd to a good .22lr.
C-grunt
Member
the end of the world as we know it.
In another thread, someone made the point that while .22 LR is not the ideal self defense round, I've never seen anyone line up to get shot with one for giggles. More likely than not, the threat of physical violence in most situations is more effective than actual violence.
I love my Ruger MKiii, but I've shot someone with a CCI Stinger, deliberately, center chest. Hit the underside of a rib, ricocheted down and lodged between his heart and lung. He WALKED to his car and DROVE HIMSELF to the ER. A 22 is better than nothing, but not one of my choices for defense.
John
I love my Ruger MKiii, but I've shot someone with a CCI Stinger, deliberately, center chest. Hit the underside of a rib, ricocheted down and lodged between his heart and lung. He WALKED to his car and DROVE HIMSELF to the ER. A 22 is better than nothing, but not one of my choices for defense.
John
*SIGH*
SHTF how long do you think you will really last? Is it really relivant what caliber you have? Not really. Just buy a gun stock up on ammo and dont worry about it. You can always shoot other folks that have ammo and take it from them.........oh wait thats not a very nice thing to do.
SHTF how long do you think you will really last? Is it really relivant what caliber you have? Not really. Just buy a gun stock up on ammo and dont worry about it. You can always shoot other folks that have ammo and take it from them.........oh wait thats not a very nice thing to do.
I have been shooting the .45 ACP in 1911's since I was 17 years old. I'll stick with that.
The argument that 9MM is cheaper to train with is very valid these days, especially for the novice that needs a lot of reps.
What do I know. I carry a .22 Mag or a .32 ACP more than anything.
The argument that 9MM is cheaper to train with is very valid these days, especially for the novice that needs a lot of reps.
What do I know. I carry a .22 Mag or a .32 ACP more than anything.
combatantr2
Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 251
In SHTF, either will do. Since most SHTF real events are short lived. However in a TEOTWAWKI situation which can be a very long long long term w/c you may imply you might not live long enough to know w/c is better. In a TEOTWAWKI a rifle with lots of ammo will be more suitable. But of course everything else is just hypothetical since we may all die anyway.
Sigh........
Try and find a gun shop/range that will let you rent a selection of .45's and 9mm's and see which is most comfortable for you.
Definitely try a 1911 style, a CZ style and a Glock style
Invest in a good quality (not necessarily expensive) weapon and practice and buy good quality ammunition in the caliber of your choice.
If it is for your personal SHTF or TEOTWAWKI, learn to reload and invest in components.
Don't get fixated on worst case scenario's and enjoy shooting FIRST or you'll become that scary "UN New World Order", "Mall Ninja", "Black Helicopter", "X Files" person you mother always told you avoid.....
Try and find a gun shop/range that will let you rent a selection of .45's and 9mm's and see which is most comfortable for you.
Definitely try a 1911 style, a CZ style and a Glock style
Invest in a good quality (not necessarily expensive) weapon and practice and buy good quality ammunition in the caliber of your choice.
If it is for your personal SHTF or TEOTWAWKI, learn to reload and invest in components.
Don't get fixated on worst case scenario's and enjoy shooting FIRST or you'll become that scary "UN New World Order", "Mall Ninja", "Black Helicopter", "X Files" person you mother always told you avoid.....
Guns and more
member
- Joined
- May 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,929
I have both. Here's what I think. If I had to shoot an intruder, the .45 has more knock down power, and less likely to overpenetrate and hurt a bystander. 9mm. Ammo is cheaper, so I shoot those more often at the range. I wouldn't want to be shot by either. Most shootings are two rounds in two seconds so magazine capacity doesn't mean anything, except at the range and in the movies.
For carry, I'd go with the 9.
For carry, I'd go with the 9.
Fozzy_Bear
Member
Shevrock,
Here's my feeling:
In Short: handguns are defensive.
If you're going to where you know there will be trouble, and can't avoid it.. Take a long gun, and friends with long guns.
If you are talking about a situation where you'd be using a handgun, then you are automatically talking about a situation you are actively trying to get out of (at the very least, to go and get your long gun). so extended capacity shouldn't really come into play. Shoot who ever is preventing you from running, and run.
A .45 is very good in that application. Even if I only hit you in the wrist, you're slowed down for long enough that I'll be gone.
Yeah, It's a religious war... And I'm on the .45 side of it.. but I can see the other point of view. (The cheaper practice costs being the best argument I've heard on that.) Either should be fine... but if you're REALLY looking for a TEOTWAWKI weapon, my list (in order) would be
1) 12 ga
2) any other shotgun
3) .308 rifle
3) 5.56 rifle
4) .45 ACP
5) .357 magnum
6) 9mm
7) bow and arrows (dont' laugh, REALLY long term... no beating it...)
Just my opinion... but just so you know... I carry a .45 personally.
OneBigElf,
I would LOVE to hear more about your story, BTW. IM maybe?
Here's my feeling:
In Short: handguns are defensive.
If you're going to where you know there will be trouble, and can't avoid it.. Take a long gun, and friends with long guns.
If you are talking about a situation where you'd be using a handgun, then you are automatically talking about a situation you are actively trying to get out of (at the very least, to go and get your long gun). so extended capacity shouldn't really come into play. Shoot who ever is preventing you from running, and run.
A .45 is very good in that application. Even if I only hit you in the wrist, you're slowed down for long enough that I'll be gone.
Yeah, It's a religious war... And I'm on the .45 side of it.. but I can see the other point of view. (The cheaper practice costs being the best argument I've heard on that.) Either should be fine... but if you're REALLY looking for a TEOTWAWKI weapon, my list (in order) would be
1) 12 ga
2) any other shotgun
3) .308 rifle
3) 5.56 rifle
4) .45 ACP
5) .357 magnum
6) 9mm
7) bow and arrows (dont' laugh, REALLY long term... no beating it...)
Just my opinion... but just so you know... I carry a .45 personally.
OneBigElf,
I would LOVE to hear more about your story, BTW. IM maybe?
heritageguy
Member
How many times has this question been asked? 5,000? 10,000?
And yet, the good people here take time to patiently answer it. What a group!
And yet, the good people here take time to patiently answer it. What a group!
Fozzy_Bear
Member
actually....
Most of my reply was cut and paste. I keep THAT, and a few other replies in a text file on my desktop for just such occasions...
(I also keep a particularly clever Flame Mail there too... that comes in handy every so often )
Most of my reply was cut and paste. I keep THAT, and a few other replies in a text file on my desktop for just such occasions...
(I also keep a particularly clever Flame Mail there too... that comes in handy every so often
)Tarvis
Member
But what if the zombies start using cover or makeshift armor, won't I need something with more energy so I can penetrate the barriers/armor and still get headshots?
CHEVELLE427
Member
BEST GUN WOULD BE THE ONE YOU ARE COMFORTABLE / Competent WITH
i like the 45 as it's what i carry, but SHOT PLACEMENT wins the prize.
AR AK SK 223-762X39
30-06
45ACP
22LR HAND GUN AND RIFLE
you can pack a whole bunch of 22 in your pocket
i like the 45 as it's what i carry, but SHOT PLACEMENT wins the prize.
AR AK SK 223-762X39
30-06
45ACP
22LR HAND GUN AND RIFLE
you can pack a whole bunch of 22 in your pocket
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