9mm +P+ vs .357 Magnum?

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I like 115 and 124 grain Gold Dot and 115 grain Cor Bon in my 9s. I haven't been impressed with the 147 grain loads. Especially the subsonic loads.
 
I have carried the Federal +P+ 115gr JHP (9BPLE) in my 9mm pistols for years. I carried it because it was accurate, inexpensive and had a LONG track record of stopping bad people from doing bad things. I recently picked up a 500 round case of Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+ T-Series (RA9TA) for a great price ($210 otd) at a gun show. I will be running it through my pistols to see if it will be my new CCW load. As far as the .357 goes, I carry the Federal Hi-Shok 125gr (357B) in my M28. If I get a chance next weekend, I will chrono the RA9TA and the 357B loading and post the data.
 
I have both and the Federal .357 mag load does 1450~ out of a 4" brl GP100.
The same load has ~1210 fps out of a 2.25" SP101.

The 127 grn +P+ 9mm does 1220~ out of a G19.
The G19 is about the same size as the SP101 2.25" and holds triple the rounds.

Now you put those 357 mags in a 16" Marlin and we are talking some serious business! But, that is the trick with the 357 mag. It has slow buring powder to increase velocity and needs the long barrels to reach its potential. Otherwise, a short barrel 357 mag makes a loud boom and blinding flash.

Like others have said, I can control the G26/G19 better with the +p+ rounds than I can the snubbie with magnum loads.

When short brls come to play the 9mm (with the right loading:edit) will actually beat the 357 magnum EEK!
Oh no he didn't!
LOL
 
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jmr40 said:
My Glock 19 shoots +p 124 gr bullets at a chronographed 1250 fps. While lots of 357 mag ammo is advertised at 1400-1500 fps, that is from 8" test barrels with no cylinder gap. Shoot that same ammo through a real gun with a 4" barrel and you MIGHT get 1300 fps. Shoot it from a revolver shorter than 4" and +P 9mm beats it.

A 357 revolver is most useful with longer barrels and heavier 158-180 gr. bullets that a 9mm cannot handle. For self defense against humans I'll take a 9mm every time. For woods carry where 4 legged predators are a concern I'll take a 10mm pistol, but a good 357 with the right ammo is a close 2nd place.
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I see this written on the internet; however, Remington 125gr SJHP exceeded 1450fps out of a 4" Dan Wesson and 1626fps through a 6" M686.

I handloaded some 140gr SJHPs into the low 1500s and that may be one of the best personal defense combinations I've tested with relatively mild recoil. :)
 
Hot 9mm loads, and cost, have kept me from getting .357 sig. 9mm is just so adaptable and practical. I don't really feel like .357 mag has much more to offer either as a defensive load. Perhaps for hunting, but then there's 44 mag.

I don't care much if my 9mm carry ammo is +P or not. The extra bit of velocity is not needed for expansion. The modern hollowpoints of today are designed to work at a wide range of velocities. So that extra 50 fps you get with +P doesn't mean you get a proportional amount of extra expansion.
 
2zulu1: i too, find that a 4" brl or more is needed for the 357 mag to make strides an. d blow away the 9mm.
But, with short brls (2.25" or less) the 9mm proves to be better suited for ccw and control.

I do not find the 357 mag difficult to conttol.
But the flash is distracting for follow-up shots.
Now if we get to a 3" brl kahr or lc9?.
Test show a 147 grn load superior to light and fast loadings in 9mm.

Know your loads guys.
A 45 is not great with ball ammo vs a 9mm with +p jhp.
 
if im correct the 38 super was the the 38 special in a autoloader.
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No.

The .38 super is more like .357 sig in performance, while the .38 special is not much more powerful than .380.
 
I run the 100 grain powerball @1350 in my glock 26. That's about the same as you were referring to, it's actually 2 grains lighter than my 380 golden sabre ammo in my ruger. But I have a seperate mag loaded up with FMJ 124 or 5 grain rounds. In case I need penetration, in a g19 mag, and a third with 147 g hollow points, whatever the situation, calls for. Same with my 40, Hornaday 165 red tip,wwb 180 fmj, and low recoil 135 Winchester. can't have enough selection. 3 mags is perfect. My 45 is one hydrashock in 230, and one 230 fmj.
Range ammo is plain heavy federal or wwb in FMJ. All guns tested with all ammo I use for full reliability.
 
rcmodel said:
Not unless you plan to miss a lot.

And don't mind beating the snot out of your pistol shooing +P+ in it.

rc
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It just depends on what you shoot.

Honestly my glock 34 probably digests +p+ much better than my s&w 60 does full house magnums

Given the rise of "active shooter" incidents I'm not going to discount the usefulness of being able to lay down some covering fire.

I carry wheelies and a g34 depending on my mood honestly researching the subject and chronoing 357 non boutique defense loads 9mm +p+ is the equivalent to the watered down 357 mag we get today.

There's lots and lots of 125g 357 loads that struggle to break 1300 in a service sized revolver. Much less a snubbie

posted via tapatalk using android.
 
Here are a few more data points -- actual chrono data.

9mm
4” FNX 9mm ……CorBon 115gr JHP +p…………1,318 fps (Mfg Claimed 1,350 fps)
3.8”CZ P01………Buf Bore 147gr JHP +p………..1,115 fps (Mfg Claimed 1,175 fps)
3.8”CZ Po1………Win Ranger 127 JHP +p+……..1,209 fps (Mfg Claimed 1,250 fps)
3.5” Kahr CW9…….Win Ranger 127 JHP +p+…….1,190 fps (Mfg Claimed 1,250 fps)

357 Mag
1 7/8” S&W 340PD….Fed 130gr Hyd Shok 357 mag…..1,159 fps (Mfg Claimed 1,410fps)
1 7/8” S&W 340PD….Handload 158gr CSWC 13.5g A2400 357 mag…..1,075 fps
1 7/8” S&W 340PD….Handload 158gr HXTP HP 13.5g A2400 357 mag…..1,009 fps
1 7/8” S&W 340PD….Handload 185gr LFNGC 14.7g LilGun 357 mag…..1,007 fps
Yes, 185gr not a typo.
 
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I have developed a formula for determining which is better, in the 9mm+p+ vs. .357mag debate.
It works as follows:

-If you have or prefer a .357 revolver. Then .357 mag is better. You get versatility and what is to some, a superior platform.

-If you have or prefer a 9mm semi-auto. Then 9mm+p+ is better. You get increased capacity and what is to some, a superior platform.

Of course, if you have one of each. Which ever one you have at hand, is best.


Yes, there are revolvers that chamber 9mm.
Yes, there are autos that chamber .357mag.
These are options that are best not taken into account in this question. Clearly, the only way to solve this would be to:

-Shoot each foot with each cartridge/platform.

-Determine which hurts worse.

-Post it online, for the edification of all interested parties.
 
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I thought Buffalo Bore switched hollow points, during the ammo shortage a few years ago? Aren't they using Montana Gold hollow points now?

I agree, comparing a BB 9mm load to a Federal .357 load is unbalanced.

If I have any one favorite round it's .357mag. It's versatility includes the ability to use .38 special (Secretly, just between you and me, .38 special is actually my favorite. It's just not very manly to admit.).
However, for any barrel shorter than 4". I'd prefer .38 over .357.
I can handle .357 snubs fine but, it just seems like more flash and boom, than actual worthwhile performance.
 
2ndamd said:
2zulu1: i too, find that a 4" brl or more is needed for the 357 mag to make strides an. d blow away the 9mm.
But, with short brls (2.25" or less) the 9mm proves to be better suited for ccw and control.

I do not find the 357 mag difficult to conttol.
But the flash is distracting for follow-up shots.
Now if we get to a 3" brl kahr or lc9?.
Test show a 147 grn load superior to light and fast loadings in 9mm.

Know your loads guys.
A 45 is not great with ball ammo vs a 9mm with +p jhp.
Click to expand...
You bring up some very valid points and I've never bought into the short barrel, alloy framed 357mag platform; but then, you won't find me carrying a G26 either.

My needs are different than most everyone else who are members of website forums, actually, I wish there was a forum for us 'country' folk to share and post our experiences and needs, what works and doesn't work.

Some personal observations, as much as I like carrying a Government 1911/38 Super in rural environments, there are times times, like today, that a M686+/6"
in a shoulder rig setup gets the nod. On multiple targets, I can match the speed of the 686 with a G17, but I can't match the precision accuracy of the 686.

A serious drawback of compact pistols and snub revolvers is their ability to engage multiple, fast moving targets accurately. Very few people have extensive professional training to carry a revolver or put in the the range time to be efficient with one and I have a feeling that many who carry a snub or compact pistol don't fall into the extensive training category.

Training is expensive with the minimum base round count in the 1000-1500 range, including 400-500 with your carry ammo. There's a standard to buck up to if one chooses to carry just as there's a standard for bullet selection. While both calibers may shoot the same 124/125gr bullet weights, bullet design and construction between the two calibers is different. The mag design doesn't need reliable feed ramp construction and many of the mag's bullets are designed with exposed lead that are known for consistent expansion. JHPs can and do clog, some petals may fold back, if some don't fold back the bullet may tumble thus limiting its penetration and reducing its crush cavity volume. XTPs expand reliably, but so do the mag's JSP designs. While the 125gr JSPs don't expand as wide as their 125gr SJHP/JHP counterparts, they penetrate slightly deeper and will do so through light intermediate
barriers, including heavy clothing constructed of down, thinsulate and leather to name a few.

The only snub/short length barrel revolvers I own are in 327mag, 38 Special and 44 Special. Out of a 327mag/2.5" snub (6 shot 21oz), Speer's 115gr Gold Dot (sectional density of the 357/140) @1371fps expands over a 1/2" and penetrates ~15" of soft tissue; heads up (or better) than the 127gr +P+ on a good day.

Just a few observations, if I want magnum performance in a pocket carry wheelgun, I go 327 because it's easier on the hands than the 357; but I also realize I compromise distance by doing so, as it is with any short barrel pistol/revolver.

FWIW, when I carry 9mm, G17 - 127 +P+, Browning Hi-Power - 124gr +P GD; 2nd magazine with both is 147gr bonded or HST.
 
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