9mm +P+ vs .357 Magnum?

[memphisjim]

I'm a 9mm guy but 9mm is closer to 380acp than hot 357mag

 

[Jath]

I'm tired of reading posts from people who have never taken a physics class, let alone done any actual testing work or calculations regarding terminal ballistics.

We should make a rule that if you haven't so much as taken a college physics class, or are newer than a year into guns, you shouldn't pass off your terminal ballistics OPINION as fact.

 

[2zulu1]

I'm tired of reading posts from people who have never taken a physics class, let alone done any actual testing work or calculations regarding terminal ballistics.

We should make a rule that if you haven't so much as taken a college physics class, or are newer than a year into guns, you shouldn't pass off your terminal ballistics OPINION as fact.

So, since you have taken a college physics class, why not teach us about fluid dynamics and why the momentum model is better for comparing service calibers than the kinetic energy model???

 

[Jath]

Paul, how long was your revolver's barrel? how about the auto's?

 

[Jath]

So, since you have taken a college physics class, why not teach us about fluid dynamics and why the momentum model is better for comparing service calibers than the kinetic energy model???

I can actually show you examples of this not being the case.

 

[paul105]

Jath,

Barrel length is shown at the beginning of each row of data. The revolver was 1 7/8" -- the semi autos were 3.5", 3.8" and 4.0".

Paul

 

[R.W.Dale]

Jath,

Barrel length is shown at the beginning of each row of data. The revolver barrel length was 1 7/8" -- barrel lengths for the semi autos were 3.5", 3.8" and 4.0".

Paul

Also bear in mind that given bbl length for a revolver cannot be directly compared to an automatic.

On a wheel gun the bbl length is measured from the cylinder face forward. On an automatic you measure to the breach face.

Measured the same way as an autoloader bbl a 2" snubbie revolver will actually have an effective barrel length of closer to 4"

posted via tapatalk using android.

 

[NG VI]

The gap on a revolver doesn't bleed off as much velocity as you'd think, either. I think the common rule of thumb of 50 feet per second is probably high except for the sloppiest of cylinder gaps.

 

[2zulu1]

I can actually show you examples of this not being the case.

Well, let's put your college physics to work so that you can share your formulas showing us the effectiveness of KE as it relates to terminal ballistics between the 10mm, 9mm +P+, 357SIG and 357 mag.

 

[Tim37]

just a question to throw some fuel on this fire.

i happen to have a ruger blackhawk convertable 357/9mm with a 6" barrel. im asking this because after this thread i honestly dont know any more. How much stouter would if any a standard 357mag be over a 9mm +p+?

 

[Waywatcher]

Lightweight screamers, although very effective, are not really the .357 cartridge's strong suit in my opinion.

The cartridge really struts its stuff launching 158 grain hardcast wide meplat SWCs at 1250+fps, or 180 grain hardcast wide meplat bullets at 1150+fps. No autoloader can load bullets with such high sectional densities at such high velocities, especially with such bullet shapes.

 

[paul105]

Some perspective on .357 mag and barrel length -- actual chron at 5 long paces from the muzzle

Blue Dot Load -- Alliant Max w/158gr GD 10.2gr

Marlin 18" ,158 gr LRNFP, 9.6gr Blue Dot, 1482.5 fps
Marlin 18" ,158 gr RJHP, 9.6gr Blue Dot, 1405.5 fps
Ruger BH 6.5" ,158 gr LRNFP, 9.6gr Blue Dot, 1272.5 fps
Ruger BH 6.5" ,158 gr RJHP, 9.6gr Blue Dot, 1225 fps
Ruger SP101 3" ,158 gr LRNFP, 9.6gr Blue Dot, 1171
S&W M60 3" ,158 gr LRNFP, 9.6gr Blue Dot, 1166
Ruger SP101 3" ,158 gr RJHP, 9.6gr Blue Dot, 1139.5 fps
S&W M60 3" ,158 gr RJHP, 9.6gr Blue Dot, 1129 fps
S&W M360 Ti 1.9" ,158 gr LRNFP, 9.6gr Blue Dot, 1019.5 fps
S&W M360 Ti 1.9" ,158 gr RJHP, 9.6gr Blue Dot, 945.5 fps


Lil Gun -- Hodgdon max w/180gr Nos Part - 15.0gr

Marlin 18" ,185 gr LFNGC, 14.7gr Lil'Gun, 1713 fps
Ruger BH 6.5" ,185 gr LFNGC, 14.7gr Lil'Gun, 1388 fps
S&W M60 3" ,185 gr LFNGC, 14.7gr Lil'Gun, 1175 fps
Ruger SP101 3" ,185 gr LFNGC, 14.7gr Lil'Gun, 1161 fps
S&W M360 Ti 1.9" ,185 gr LFNGC, 14.7gr Lil'Gun, 1023

Paul

 

[wanderinwalker]

just a question to throw some fuel on this fire.

i happen to have a ruger blackhawk convertable 357/9mm with a 6" barrel. im asking this because after this thread i honestly dont know any more. How much stouter would if any a standard 357mag be over a 9mm +p+?

See paul105's chrony numbers. It's not a question and it's not throwing fuel on the fire. The .357 IS hands-down, far more potent than the 9mm, even in +P+ trim.

The only reason you can consider a 9mm to be equal to a .357 would be to use the lightweight bullets and throw the .357s out of a 2" snub revolver. Even then, as paul105's numbers show, a 2" .357 is not just "a loud .38 +P", as some would have you believe.

Then again, the 9mm doesn't seem to be terribly affected going from a 4.5" barrel to a 3.5" barrel either. My own chronograph results with a Glock 26 and 17 registered the shorter barrel at a whopping 60-fps slow with most loads. And I will never argue the fact that the 9mm is much more shooter friendly than a stout .357.

I have two .357s and two 9mms and consider myself well armed with either cartridge. It really comes down to what you think you need the handgun to do. If it's for woods work with medium game possibly on the table, give me the .357 and some good 158gr Magnums. If it's for concealing in town, I'll take the Glock 26. If it's for sitting on the night stand, it has to be one of each.

 

[amd6547]

I have been a fan of the 9mm for a long time.
My current favorite is the Glock 26. I shoot it well, and it has been 100% reliable. My load of choice for carry is the Ranger 127gn +P+...it is accurate, and I feel well armed with the combination.
I am also a fan of S&W K frame revolver, and my favorite is a 2.5" Model 19 357 mag. This is my HD handgun of choice.
My club has 10" hanging steel plates at 40yds. I shoot them with both the above handguns.
With the G26, a solid hit results in a "ping" and the plate swinging slightly.
Using the Model 19 and Blazer Brass 158gn 357 mag JHP, a hit gives a loud smack, and the plate really moves...
Neither performance inspires me to think that one round is superior to the other for self defense. In fact, I feel well armed with a decent 38special load.
But there is no doubt in my mind that the 357 mag has power to spare that the 9mm can only dream of.

 

[481]

I'm tired of reading posts from people who have never taken a physics class, let alone done any actual testing work or calculations regarding terminal ballistics.

So am I.

Do you have an advanced degree in physics or direct professional experience in related research that would cause us to take your opinions as statements of fact?

We should make a rule that if you haven't so much as taken a college physics class, or are newer than a year into guns, you shouldn't pass off your terminal ballistics OPINION as fact.

So, let me get this straight...

You are suggesting that the level of education that is required "pass off your terminal ballistics OPINION as fact" is one college level physics class or at least one year of shooting experience?

 

[Dean1818]

So my SP101 3' 357 should be tossed?

 

[amd6547]

No, but it is time to toss this thread, which has become a squirt contest between two people who may be physics gods in their own minds and who probably never fired either caliber.

 

[jimniowa]

I will jump into this thread and state that a 158g jfp or 158g hard cast bullet when properly loaded will break a engine block enableling it if successfuly entering the compartment. It will give the user a thrill as do all heavy loads in a 4" .357. Mine is a Colt Trooper MK lll our bedside gun.
In autoloader the 9mm has been around longer than the .45acp. I have both and the 9mm is for fire power, 15 rd mags. My go to is a .44sp,.44mag, .45acp for carry guns. I carry a Kimber 3" .45 acp auto, back up a .44sp revolver, as I find the .357 mag a awsome weapon with a +p load, both the .44sp and the .45acp may not break engine blocks, but they will put out the opposition quickly.
Jim