9mm PCC, braced AR pistol, AR rifle, or Ruger PCC-9?

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shotgunjoel

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I've been thinking about getting a 9mm carbine for a while now, but other things have always taken priority. Now my club is starting a PCC division at our outlaw 3-Gun matches and I'm itching to try it out. I would also like this carbine to serve double duty for HD, especially for the wife. As the title states I'm looking at either an AR pistol with a brace, a 16" AR, or the Ruger PCC-9. On the ARs I'm leaning towards Colt mags over Glock due to LRBHO being a must for me.

For the AR pistol:
I like the idea of having a little subgun-sized package, it'd be great for HD and the wife would like it. I'm not familiar with the differences between braces, the KAK Shockwave looks like an affordable and effective option, but I'd assume some others may be more comfortable, but don't really know the pros and cons. Looking at 8" or 10.5" barrels with float tubes.

For the AR rifle length:
It would probably be the best option for competition, but having such a large 9mm AR seems a touch silly. It would still work adequately for HD, but probably not as well as the AR pistol. I'd be interested in using a magwell conversion so as to take advantage of my Geissele trigger in my 5.56 lower, but I can't find much info comparing the options.

For the Ruger:
For some reason I just really like the idea. It seems like a 9mm 10/22, and I love my 10/22. I think that the similarity to the 10/22 and the side-charging bolt would be pluses for the wife as they're more straight-forward than the ARs. Our current setup is an M1 carbine in the closet, so the retraining would be very minimal.
 
You could look at the mean arms Endo mag. It's a cool idea. Converts a pmag to a 9mm. No magblock needed. Just need an ar9 upper.

But a 9mm are has more kick than a 223 due to the mass of the bolt. I would not use the shockwave. Get the sb3 brace for $100 from Brownells and put it on a 10" barrel.

The ruger I shot was nice. And certainly cheaper than a lot of other options. I wound up with the scorpion, but it has some serious issues I was able to fix, but am unable to recommend it in its stock form.
 
As I have posted elsewhere, I am not an AR fan. I have and really like the Ruger PCC; I like that it takes down easily and that it uses Glock magazines.
 
Really depends on your task/purpose for it. IF you don't have one, then go with what you "like".

I have a full sized AR9, but my Task/Purpose was for use as a trainer for ARs and competitions. It does its primary function flawlessly, and is OK at the 2nd.

Basically set-up like my HD AR; furniture, sights, light and trigger:

GVgRIG8.jpg

Like any PCC, easier to reload for and doesn't screw up my AR500 steel. After I finish my 300AAC build, my next project will be an AR9, but in PDW pistol format. Different gun for a different task/purpose.
 
I am, generally speaking, an old school cowboy type. I put off buying an AR until my son convinced me that i needed ONE.
One turned into five.
I must endorse the AR pistol with brace.
Without a doubt, thats what i wd do;fwiw.
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I have a Ruger PC Carbine and I must say that it has become my favorite long gun. Personally, I have no use for an AR pistol. They look cool, but I just don’t care for them. Maybe my attitude on that will change when the zombie hordes attack :rofl:
Seriously, I just don’t care for them. Friends of mine have them and love them. I just can’t.

I think for the uses you have explained I would go with the Ruger first, then get an AR or the AR pistol. :thumbup:
 
Many PCC rulesets do not allow pistols (braced or not). If you are planning to use this for gaming, the AR PCC is pretty much the clear winner.

Very true, so IF competitions are a serious "potential" then the pistol is out.

Also just re-read the OPs post.

I'd be interested in using a magwell conversion so as to take advantage of my Geissele trigger in my 5.56 lower, but I can't find much info comparing the options

Do some research on AR9 trigger compatibility.

There's a good chance this will not be possible due to trigger/bolt compatibility (do a search, it's an issue). I have a Geissele SSA-E in my Colt AR6951 (pictured above) and mine runs fine. Apparently that is not the norm. AR15.com has multiple threads concerning trigger compatibility in AR PCCs. I'd invest some time there prior to purchasing something.
 
Of course, the correct answer is to get one of each!

I bought a Ruger PCC not too long ago. I bought it with USPSA PCC division in mind, as it occurred to me that I did not currently own any non-NFA guns that would be appropriate for that game. Not that I have an issue using NFA guns. They have some advantages at times, where a shorter barrel is more manuverable.

I built a 5" AR15/9mm several years ago, and while it runs fine, it generally isn't my go-to gun. I had a 16" upper for it at one time, but it never seemed to run as well. But don't let that dissuade you. I have seen plenty of full-length AR15/9s that run great.

As noted above, the AR has an interesting recoil impulse. Not hard, but "sharp" is the best description.

The open-bolt subguns shoot surprisingly soft. I put a closed bolt in the Uzi, and it had a similar recoil impulse as the AR15/9.

The Ruger seems to be somewhere in the middle, but closer to the AR15/9. I should not I'm running a standard 9mm bolt & buffer in the AR. People have gone to lighter bolts, buffers & springs to get a softer recoil impulse.

I'm also having fun with the Micro Roni Stab. In general, I'm not a big fan of any of the arm braces I've tried. I went this route to play with to see if I wanted to SBR a Glock and get the stocked version of the Micro Roni. Shooting side-by-side, the Ruger seems to stay on target better. The Roni has faster reloads. I'm thinking putting a normal-length stock on the Roni should help.

ETA: if using for competition, be sure to check the rules. USPSA requires you to use an actual rifle (carbine) in PCC division. A pistol with an arm brace is legally still a "pistol", and is not allowed to be used as a PCC. Other organizations have other rules, so may be ok.

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I agree that one of each would be best. But if that's not feasible due to state or local ordinances and/or financial limitations then I'd go with the Ruger PCC. Got one a few months ago and it's become a favorite of mine. Simple, sturdy, and accurate in my experience so far. It's neat to have what has been described as " a 10/22 on steroids" . Mine's currently using Ruger magazines but I may switch it over to the Glock magazine well in the future. A friend of mine also recently purchased one because he's left handed and really appreciated being able to choose which side the charging handle will be on. A nice feature that some of you "southpaws" may not have heard about yet. So as far as charging handles go this thing could also be termed "ambidextrous" . Here's the left side of mine showing where the charging handle would be if I were left handed. IMG_2049.JPG
 
The PC9 is kinda like a 10-22 on steroids. A touch more weight and recoil with the PC9, but nothing any brand new shooter can't master with just a few minutes of instruction and shooting. The take-down feature is really simple to do and works great for cleaning, transport, etc. There isn't a huge amount of stuff you can add to the PC9, swap Ruger or Glock mag blocks, swap the side that has the charging handle, mount an optic and add a light or bipod on the little picatinny rail on the underside of the forearm are about it.

Glock 9mm mags from 10 to 33 rounds are easy to find, practically bullet proof, and not expensive.

AR's are more ergonomic and can be customized in a million and one ways, so they can be made to better suit a particular shooter's tastes. They are also much more reliable now then they were several years back, so that part of the AR vs PC9 equation (with proper 9mm AR-compatible magazines) is pretty much a push.

It truly is up to your tastes, pocketbook...and the rule book of the game(s) you intend on playing with your 9mm carbine. Personally I kept my AR's in carbine/rifle form with rifle-caliber rounds, and the PC9 is more the plinking, training, all around fun gun that can be utilized for home defense or short-range competitions if desired.

Stay safe and good luck with your search!
 
AR pistol with a Sig brace. The KAK Shockwave is fine, but since you want to use this for competitions, I do feel that the Sig braces would be more comfortable.

There's no point in a 16 inch 9mm AR, the Ruger PC would be better there, the benefit to the AR platform is a legit carbine with a sub 16 inch barrel and can be fired from the shoulder. Really the Kel Tec Sub 2000 would be better than either because it's shorter and lighter, but recoil is stout with that rifle and the trigger is crap.

Somebody here said the Scorpion, it's a cool gun, but it uses proprietary mags and I don't like a PCC that doesn't share mags with pistols I own.
 
Tell me more about that side charging upper, I'm intrigued.

As to competition rules, this would be for my local outlaw 3-Gun match and we are not picky in the slightest. People have run braced AR pistols as their rifle in the past with nothing said.

It is a Frankenstein that I built. The lower is a palmetto state armory colt mag dedicated lower. I did a the “set screw mod” on the trigger group and tweaked it to a 5lb pull with no creep or takeup. The upper is a bear creek stripped 223 side charging reciever, a faxon 10.5” barrel, eBay free float tube, eBay krink brake, and UTG flip sights. The bolt is from delta team tactical and I drilled and tapped it for a bolt handle. The faxon barrel is awsome, it shoots like an inch group at 50 yards with a scope on it. I also added an extra powder ar10 buffer spring, and an NFA buffer tube spacer.

I use ACS 20 round mags and they did take a little tweaking to fit inside the billet upper but easy to do. It’s perfect and I wouldn’t change a thing. It’s part of my trio of side chargers

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I would take the M1 carbine over any of the other mentioned guns! I own both an M1 Carbine and a Ruger PC9, the M1 Carbine is just a much nicer smoother shooter! The only place the PC9 beats the M1 carbine in my opinion is the cheap 9mm ammo.
 
Somebody here said the Scorpion, it's a cool gun, but it uses proprietary mags and I don't like a PCC that doesn't share mags with pistols I own.
So what? A PCC that uses pistol mags is ugly and only a very minor convenience.
 
So what? A PCC that uses pistol mags is ugly and only a very minor convenience.
Why do you care what a PCC looks like with which mags?

It's a hell of a convenience when you have 10 mags that you can use in several guns, especially commonly used ones like S&W, Glock, Sig.

The one thing I like with the Scorpion is the stock folds, but to me it's not worth all the other idiosyncrasies the Scorpion has compared to an AR.
 
That KAK brace feels flimsy to me. I already built a rifle, I should have built a pistol for the shorter barrel.

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It's fun to shoot, plenty accurate and not too much bark.


Honestly for a non shooter to use as an HD gun I'd look at the Ruger.
 
Honestly for a non shooter to use as an HD gun I'd look at the Ruger.
............. Guy who owns the LGS where I got my Ruger PCC told me that's the most common reason he hears from purchasers. IIRC that's another one of the reasons my left handed friend gave for his purchase of one, besides the ambidextrous charging handle, that I mentioned in post #12.
 
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