9mm power factor

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by JCSC, Jul 25, 2022.

  1. JCSC

    JCSC Member

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    I have no need for a power factor rating and recently read what exactly it was, but I saw an identical load I run listed as a 130.5 PF load.

    Having never chronographed my pistol loads (I run magneto speed) would this be considered a stout, middle of the road or bunny fart load? How does this compare to factory ammunition loading?
     
  2. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    The minimum PF for 9mm, in a full sized pistol, is usually 125 PF...most factory ammo runs hotter than this...most competitors load over 130 PF to provide a cushion due to multiple variables.

    I was at a match recently where the highest PF recorded during the Chrono Stage was just over 200PF using factory ammo.

    To answer your question, you'd be on the low end of Middle-of-the-Road loads
     
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  3. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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  4. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    It is a little dated.

    PF for IDPA Compact Carry Pistol (CCP) is now 105 PF
     
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  5. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    wow! 125gn 9mm going 840fps… that’s SLOW!
     
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  6. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    I my understanding is PF= M×V. If you DIVID (÷) PF by M (mass) you should have velocity.(PF÷M=V) if thats a 115gr,then 130,500.÷ 115 = velocity. Thats 1135 fps. Not full power, but I sure would not want to get hit with it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2022
  7. joneb

    joneb Member

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    Power factor vs foot pounds of energy? I choose the latter, don't dumb down the physics.
     
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  8. JCSC

    JCSC Member

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    Thank a bunch everyone. As mentioned, I was curious how spicy my loads are and they are on the softer side.

    That’s perfect for me. They ring steel and don’t burn extra powder.
     
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  9. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    If you're only interested in ringing steel, you can actually load it down some
     
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  10. twarr1

    twarr1 Member

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    130 PF is a good plinking/target load. Unless you have a specific need to go more you might consider keeping this load if it meets your accuracy targets.
     
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  11. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    130 PF isn’t a “hot” 9mm load but is close to max with some powders. My “major” 9mm loads would fall into that category at 172 PF though that’s almost 1500 fps with a 115.

    130 is only 884 fps with a 147, my “minor” loads run faster than that (920 fps for 135pf). Most people call them “bunny fart” loads because the 3.1 gn charge of N310 gives a very mild report and the fast powder/heavy bullet loads have more of a “push” recoil impulse than a “snap” of a slow powder/light bullet combination.

    1150fps with a 115gn bullet is 132pf.

    817BA926-A0F7-4632-8BA3-DE032BD88F54.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
  12. earplug

    earplug Member

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    I have been told that certain NATO 9mm loads are 180 PF. Cracking older Beretta parts.
     
  13. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

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    PF is momentum expressed in terms common to the gun world. gr-kfps. I wouldn’t call it dumbed down but simplified for field use. Scientists tend to use different terms in different situations especially when working with extremes, like distance and weight (think light-years).

    Whether I like it or not, it is the measurement used by NRA, USPSA,SCSA, IDPA, ICORE, and possibly others.
     
  14. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    Who made the term “ 9mm Major” mainstream,? but nobody outside the reloading world will makes “Major” load

    John Wick 3 with the STi Combat Master
     
  15. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    USPSA shooters.

    But be aware that the 9mm Major is still considered a "Wildcat Cartridge" and isn't safe in most handguns chambered in 9x19mm

    I wouldn't say "nobody".

    Last I checked, Eley, Everglades Ammo, Atlanta Arms and Buffalo Bore all produce 9mm Major loads...smaller companies included JJR Ammo, ORM Tech, Universal Ammo
     
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  16. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    I assumed he was quoting a movie, the actor was participating in USPSA matches back then.

    but yeah, people that use “power factor” and major or minor are the floors vs “foot pounds of energy” and just setting a number.

    Two different measures.
     
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  17. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    I like power factor because it make sense to me. Wiggles the variables and see how hard it it’s hitting and compare and contact with factory or whatever loads
     
  18. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    Yes they are but they shouldn't be. This defeats the entire reason that the SAAMI was started in 1928 to begin with.
    There were to many loads that were way to hot to shoot in so called different calibers guns that were actually the same caliber and fit guns that were just to weak to handle them.
    That's why the hotter versions of the same caliber loads were made with the cases longer, so they wouldn't fit in the weaker guns. 357/38 spl and so on.

    Now we are doing it again. Is any agency policing this? I guess not. I guess people will have to get maimed and mutilated before someone remembers why SAAMI was started to begin with and does their job.
    There are to many versions of 9mm already so you just can't go longer with them. The Largo is longer and is weaker than the Luger already.

    Maybe I should come out with a 32 S&W long Super Vel. It can have pressures right under a 327 Federal Magnum and if some if some one shoots it out of their old Colt Police Positive and it blows up and hurts or kills some one , well, I guess it just sucks to be them.
     
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  19. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    “Major” doesn’t denote pressure at all. It’s a power factor, calculated by multiplying the bullet weight by the speed, regardless of pressure.

    There are actually some powders you can make major with, without even getting to +P pressures.

    Like this data from Vihtavuori
    2EBC888B-FD76-44C4-9517-B267C0EB2E82.jpeg

    That 3N38 Starting load makes 172 and change, your major in USPSA @ 165.
     
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  20. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    When Vihtavuori entered the market place, they publish velocities much higher then any other powders available. Proved a very effective marketing technique. Also proved BS. I have not chronographed any of them (vv) but i doubt it. The Europian standards are much higher for 9x19 then SAMMI. that might be where this comes from.
     
  21. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    Taren tactical is developing the 9mm Magnum (or something like that) load. the New STI Sand Viper is supposed to handle the load. I Need more information!!! sound Bad A**!!!!
     
  22. n2omike

    n2omike Member

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    Thought I'd chime in with some basic science regarding Energy vs. Momentum.
    Power Factor is based upon MOMENTUM.

    Kinetic Energy varies with the SQUARE of the velocity.
    KE = (Mass x Velocity x Velocity)/2

    Momentum is simply proportional to velocity.
    Momentum = Mass x Velocity

    When it comes to Kinetic Energy, velocity is FAR more important than mass.
    When it comes to Momentum (Power Factor), velocity and mass are equally important.

    Heavier bullets go a long way when it comes to producing momentum.
     
  23. Mark_Mark
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    Mark_Mark Contributing Member

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    Too much math 4 Me!
     
  24. joneb

    joneb Member

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    Hi Mark, I just just noticed you have been a member for a little over a year and a half and you have over 8,140 posts:confused: this must be a full time job for you at The High Road.
     
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