9mm question

[noresttill]

Ive been reading all the calibre wars between 9's and 45's while looking for the best carry load for my GLOCK 17 (ive narrowed it to between GDHP and Hydroshok) and came across the concensus...

Many people believe the 9mm is a walk away round.
There are many people involved in "illegal" shootouts shot by 9x19's who have been patched up.

I am under the understanding that even a 38 to the heart/head will kill someone dead. Yet many people are living through 9mm shots.

Here is the question: Am I right to assume that perhaps these people who were hit in Non-Class A (instant death) areas, were hit with ball?

"This gang-member was shot 7 times and walked to the hospital"
"There are many prisoners here shot with 9mm, none with .45's"

I have a hard time believing that one 9mm Gold Dot to someones lung at 10 yards would not bring them down intantly.

Am I pretty correct in this observation.

Oh, and I dont care to read about the differences in calibres. I just want to know if there is a rating system between 9mm bullets.

Thanks,
Jesse

 

[Deer Hunter]

If you want, get a .45 and buy into all the hype that the 9mm is a sucky round.

Or.

Get a 9mm, don't believe the hype, and learn how to shoot. Honestly, I'm a .45 guy (hotly loaded, mind you), yet I see nothing wrong with a 9mm. They are both great rounds, and everything boils down to shot placement. Sure, it might say that the guy was shot 7 times, but how many of those were in arms/legs?

And if you still don't know what to choose, just get a 10mm and don't turn back.

 

[MadMercS55]

A PD near me issues the Glock 17 with Federal Hydrashok 124grn +p+ ammunition. They've used this for a long time now with very good results from the data I've been privy to.

 

[wolf_from_wv]

And how many where shot with the gun turned sideways or wildly shot versus aimed fire...

 

[carebear]

I believe the number is only 1 in 4 people shot with a handgun end up dying. they really aren't great killers.

Don't get hung up on death or recovery statistics, if the shot attacker stops attacking that's a win.

 

[Chuck Perry]

Whatever caliber you decide on, always remember: anyone worth shooting is worth shooting twice.

 

[Ala Dan]

Some very good info so far, and remember shot placement is what counts.
"A hit with a 9m/m, is by far better than a miss with a .45 ACP". I have
not had too shoot anyone, but I believe that I could put 'em down with
a 9 equally as good as I could with a .45 ACP~!

 

[CAnnoneer]

9mm is just fine. In the right place, it will kill ya good.
.45 is just fine. In the right place, it will kill ya good.

Every time I see posters dissing the 9mm, I laugh and think how dead they'd be if hit right by a .22, a .25, or a .32. Heh.

 

[palerider1]

a 22 to the heart will kill you. get what you feel comfortable with and become a good shot. the accurate shot is what counts the most. you could have a 50 caliber but if you cant hit anything with it then what good is it.

 

[noresttill]

Thanks for the responses.

Dont get me wrong I love that GLOCK 17 (Having a little problem with the sites though:banghead: ), but I was wondering what the deal was.

I can hit center mass and dont mind putting 400 rnds at the range, but I was wondering what the hoopla was with the "underpowered 9". Ill get a 1911 eventually just cause.

Thanks, Ill pick some hydroshock +P+ for carry, when I carry (Feb), thanks.

One more question though,

I practice mostly with WWB (price), is this a bad idea being that Ill be carrying such a hot round?

Sorry about the nieve questions, im pretty new to the sport and I appreciate all your answers

Thanks

Jesse

 

[carebear]

Practicing with the WWB is fine, most of shooting well is consistent mechanics.

Be sure to shoot enough of the hot stuff to be familiar with your carry round. If you shoot it good, stick with it, if dropping a "P" or two improves your time and/or accuracy, don't get so hung up on Real Ultimate Power that you sacrifice the important things for a few more FPS or foot/pounds.

 

[palerider1]

dont get p + ammo, all you need is federal hydroshok 165 grain bullets. the recoil will be less and your aim will be better.

 

[noresttill]

Thanks

 

[Universal]

First off, Federal makes a 165 grain 9mm round? I have never heard of that. With regard to your choice of rounds, if you stick with any of the major ammo companies like Speer, Winchester, Remington and Federal, you should be set when picking a JHP for carry. A few things to consider is that the Speer Gold Dot is a bonded round which the rest are not. This really only becomes an issue with regard to barrier penetration such as car glass. Right off the top of my head I would say that Speer Gold Dots, Remington Golden Sabers, Federal Hydra-Shok and whatever Winchester has decided to call their premium JHPs this year would all be a great choices. I have also read good things lately about the Winchester USA brand.

My main home defense handgun is a GLOCK 17 currently loaded with Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +p. My last duty weapon as a police officer was a GLOCK 19 with 147 grain Gold Dots. Before that I carried a GLOCK 22 .40S&W but prefer the 9mm over the .40.

Anyway, hope any of this helps.

 

[SJG26]

FMJ's or HP?????

I think this leads to the '9mm doesn't stop em" myth. Lots of gang-on-gang shots are FMJ - they don't "waste" money on better HP's.

Primary of course is shot placement, but it would be interesting to compare the studies and examine the FMJ/HP occurence!

 

[crofrog]

I carry Winchester Ranger SXT 147gr 9mm's. They are accurate function well in my G19. Have good expansion numbers through denim, and pentrate reliably more than 14 inchs.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ has lot's of good information.

 

[f4t9r]

9mm is just fine. In the right place, it will kill ya good.
.45 is just fine. In the right place, it will kill ya good.

Every time I see posters dissing the 9mm, I laugh and think how dead they'd be if hit right by a .22, a .25, or a .32. Heh.

should say the 45 "it will kill ya gooder"

 

[shane justice]

There seems to be a swing back to 45 caliber in the military...

And I wonder...how much of this is due to combatants wearing gear...protective or otherwise across the chest area...It seems everybody you see...who is geared up...has mag carrers and what not on their chest...

Maybe they were experiencing something in the field..that a guy on the street might not...

MAybe the 45 pack more of a punch...knocks folks down...I don't know....

SOmebody once said...Use as much gun as you can shoot well....

Somebody on another forum was comparing their Black Hawk with a Makarov...weird huh...but at 20 yards...he was done right deadly with the Mak...but could not hit with the Hawk as well...

I told him...stick with what you can hit with...

If you can alway hit with a 9MM..then roll on...if you can hit with a 454...you go boy!

Most never shoot enough to get intimate with their guns...so they blame accuracy...on the gun....and sell or trade it for the next new thing...

Shoot hell out of whatcha got....

Shane

 

[McCall911]

I like this article by our own alum, Massad Ayoob:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob93.html

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

I have carried and practiced with Hydra-Shok's, Gold Dots, El Dorado Starfire's, and FMJ's. So far I have found the Gold Dots to be the most easily controlled ones. I shot those out of a Glock 27 in .40 cal. They Hydra-Shok's were used in a Taurus 617 chambered in .357 magnum and used the El Dorado's in the same gun as .38 special defense loads. Like everyone else said, you can carry a "Bus Launcher" but if you can't hit anything it won't matter. For what it's worth, I also carry a S&W 629 with .44 special Gold Dot Hollow points as a special urban load when power is an issue. (Sometimes wider is better)

 

[GoBrush]

If you want, get a .45 and buy into all the hype that the 9mm is a sucky round.

Or.

Get a 9mm, don't believe the hype, and learn how to shoot. Honestly, I'm a .45 guy (hotly loaded, mind you), yet I see nothing wrong with a 9mm. They are both great rounds, and everything boils down to shot placement. Sure, it might say that the guy was shot 7 times, but how many of those were in arms/legs?


+1

For your 9mm I reccomend Got Dot 115gr.

 

[noresttill]

Guess Im gonna hafta spring for Gold Dots, Hydroshocks, and Rangers to see what I hit the best with. Boy the gun shops are gonna love me.

What about Galsers? Hype?

 

[jeremywills]

I use the WWB stuff all the time, 4.86 at acadmey is cheap nuff for me to play at the range all day and keep constant shooting mechanics with my handgun.

I keep Federal 124 Grain HydraShok JHP's in my Magazines when Im not at the range. These feed the best in my Taurus Millenium and I honestly think a properly placed double tap center mass should be more than sufficient with these in the pipe. I honestly doubt if it should go south Ill be up against someone with a loadbearing vest with some sort of Kevlar underneath so the issue of someone with thick Tactical Gear and Body Armor are a very slight chance for me to tangle with. Most likely some dirtbag with a tshirt and jeans is what Ill be up against and FWIW some form of a gun in the hand is better than none and though you may read of people walking away from being shot with a 9mm, theres plenty of documented cases of those that haven't.

As always YMMV. Thats my 2 cents on yet again this silly vs caliber issue.

For the record, I once talked to an EMT at a gunshow and this very discussion of caliber came up and he commented in his career and line of work they got more calls of people being shot with .22 than anything else and they had also had more patients die of this than anything else. I'll believe an EMT on that one, he would know. Food for thought. As hard as it is for some folks to accept it, .22's do kill my friend. Hmm, widely available, cheap ammo, easiest guns to shoot, you do the math. My advice is your comfortable with the 9, utilize the 9. If you can tackle the .45, then go for it. Not the most optimum, but .22 in a jam. Good luck as only you in the end can decide what is going to work best for you. If your gun wont feed em right, then they are not the round for you. If your gun can't handle the +p rated stuff repeatedly, then why shorten its life. I would seriously look for any and all user feedback you can find on your particular gun and see what other folks have to report. There should be plenty of feedback on the Glock 17 but IMHO anything you probably choose should be just fine.

Once again, good luck.

J

 

[pauli]

all handgun rounds are marginal. some are more marginal than others, and some are marginal in different ways than others, but whenever someone starts claiming that handgun caliber x is ideal for stopping assailants, my advice is to stop listening.

stopping assailants is a lot like moving cross country. you'll have people bickering about what truck to buy with moving in mind - ford vs chevy, full size vs compact vs something in between - when really, you want an eighteen wheeler.

 

[carebear]

Given that you should shoot multiple magazines/cylinders of your carry ammo through your carry weapon, Glasers get a bit spendy.

There's no real evidence they work any better than a quality hollowpoint.

YMMV but I wouldn't spend the extra dough.

Doesn't WWB have a 147 gr. hollowpoint loand? Shoot and carry that. When discussing handgun round performance you're really talking nths of practical difference.