Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by jski, Dec 24, 2020.
9×18mm Ultra - Wikipedia
How about a Walther PP in 9x18 ULTRA?
Contrary to popular belief, the 1970s 9mm Police is not the same as the 1930s 9mm Ultra.
There is probably enough tolerance overlap that you could shoot 9mm Police in your $40,250 Walther prototype.
Certainly a pleasant shooter, but too big for my pockets.
The 365 is in a odd niche for me, too big for my pockets but doesn't shoot as well as my other belt guns. With my hand geometry (wide palms, short fingers) I just couldn't find a grip to rally lock it in under recoil, especially rapid fire. Great accuracy slow fire for the little gun.
Perhaps the XL with a hogue grip would have worked better for me.
But for this discussion, I really like a small gun for pocket, BUG, carry and something like a .32, perhaps a .380.
Yes there is definitely a difference between shooting an all steel Makarov or other all steel pistol chambered in 9x18 versus shooting something like the Hungarian FEG PA63 with it's aluminum alloy frame. And yes the PA63 us the closest of all 9x18 pistols to the Walther.
And for you guys that happen to own a Glock G42, Lone Wolf does have a 9x18 conversion barrel available for the G42.
Don't assume that because 9x18 Makarov is between .380 and 9mm Luger that it's just splitting the difference. 12 is "between" 10 and 20 but it's not splitting it evenly.
9mm Mak is marginally more powerful than .380 - honestly not enough to make a difference IMHO. Nothing wrong with it - heck I've got two guns chambered in it - but aside from a curiosity I see no reason to seek it out over .380, and I feel MUCH more comfortable with a 9mm Luger.
Plus all existing 9mm Mak pistols are blowbacks - unless they were making something brand new a small locked breech 9mm Luger like the M&P Shield, Ruger LC9, etc, are going to be both smaller and recoil less.
I have a PA-63 modified with some Wolf springs, especially a heavier recoil spring, it's a much softer shooter and the trigger pull is quite good but now has unreliable ignition with the imported steel case stuff. Handloads with American primers are super reliable. I have a small stash of the Hornady XTP bullets but it looks like those have been discontinued.
If we could get a compact locked breech pistol and a better supply of components it could be a good choice. Until then, not really a viable option.
Or if someone would please make 1911 barrels in 9mm Makarov I think they could sell a few. Just make a Government size and we'll cut them back if we need too. Of course it won't do anything the 9mm Luger can't do, but for those of us that shoot it anyway it'd be fun to play with.
Max pressure is 21,500 psi for the .380 and 23,500 psi for the Mak; the 9mm is 35,000 psi.
I find the locked-breech Remington RM380 (Rohrbaugh design) very pleasant to shoot.
Check out the Sig p238, if you are interested. It’s like shooting a cordless electric stapler. So mellow.
Wow. Four different manufacturers sold guns in 9mm Ultra, and who has ever heard of it?
The capacity of the gun industry to generate minutia is limitless. What other industry can change a single spec by one millimeter and claim to have invented a new product?
jski---a 380 isn't too small and a 9x19 too big if that is what is in your hand at time of need.
Find a guy that bought one of those and you'll find a guy that thought it was something else....
A guy whom I respect over on the Glock forum is loading 95 gr bullets to nearly 9mm velocities in a G42, so even the .380 package can be hotrodded. As a pp noted, there is a Mak barrel available, and it should enable shooting cheap commie ammo.
The straight blowback PP series of Walthers isn't really pleasant in .380, tho' the.32s are fine.
The 42 and 365 are pocket guns in my world, and both are fun to shoot.
Had a Seecamp .32 (mag was blocked for HPs only); it was blowback, and no fun to shoot.
Goldangit Cleetus, I done told you we needed 9mm Federal Rimmed like normal Americans, and here you go bringing back some gun aint no one ever heard of!
I have never felt recoil from any caliber shooting at game with any caliber -gauge. That being said and never being in a self defense shooting situation I would imagine it will be the same. Carry what you like and as always practice and be prepared as much as you can. I do think that training and practice is fine but when TSHTF we all will react differently.
Pair of 44s, as a fan of the .45AutoRim, it pleases me to hear the 9mm Federal Rimmed mentioned!
I have heard of them and even saw some at gun shows in the 1990s.
Some folks travel in circles so small they think they've seen it all.
I have no problem pocket carrying either my SIG P238 (extremely pleasant to shoot), or my Kahr CM9 (also very comfortable to shoot). Given the popularity of both the .380 and the 9x19 cartridges I'm happy with both of them and really wouldn't be in the market for another 9mm. even if it was in the "sweet spot".
I was watching a YouTube video of a fellow who reviews Guns, who was shooting a Sig P238 side by side with a Sig P938. He’s a rather large fellow (estimate 250 lbs+) with large wrists, forearms and hands. He shot both pistols well, but it was interesting to note that he re-established his grip (slightly but perceptibly) between each shot with the 938 but maintained his grip solidly between each shot of the 238. Also, even with his strong grip, the muzzle rise of the 938 was noticeably more. I’m not saying he couldn’t fire the 938 effectively, but the comparison was striking. I have a pocket 9mm I shoot reasonably well, but I do shoot my 238 faster and more accurately. I usually use the extended magazine with my 9 because it gives me a full grip, though I can get by without it in a pinch.
i should add that I’m no hot shot pistolero. Just a schmuck that wants to be able to reasonably defend himself.
When comparing the Sig P938 to the P238 or the 9mm Kimber Micro and Springfield Armory 911 to their 380 versions, you will notice a difference when shooting 9mm vs 380.
Bought one for my wife.
Great shooter, it's quite accurate, the night sights are a nice touch. This is the pistol my wife carries CCW.
Not a bad comment on this pistol!!
Had a Ruger LCP, didn't like it. Too snappy. I was all over the board with it. Even with the second generation improved trigger. So I got rid of it and upgraded to a 9mm.
Heh-heh, a Ruger LCRX in 9mm. Yeah I know apples to potatos. But you were talking pocket guns.
I agree that there have been some terrible subcompact 9mms, and maybe some of those could be difficult to shoot quickly with good accuracy, but's about the guns, not the round.
Anyone who thinks the 9x19 round is too much for a subcompact needs to try a S&W Shield. That gun punches above its weight class. There are other good subcompact guns too. We are living in a golden era of the 9mm subcompact. They aren't all good, but there are some real gems out there.
The same can be said for 38 Special. My lightweight alloy framed 642 J-frame is a beast and difficult to shoot with +P Gold Dots. But my SS framed 649 J-frame is enjoyable and very controllable with the same round. Both guns are the same exact size, with weight being the only real difference.
Folks want a gun that small, light as a feather, shoots a round with good terminal ballistics, but also want it to be accurate and controllable. That's a very tall order.
Chris makes a lot of sense most of the time, and I also believe a hammerless (or shrouded hammer) S&W J-frame is the ideal pocket pistol (though I'm trying a bobbed SP-101 lately). A hammerless J-frame or similar has an inherent snag less design which allows a smooth and fast draw (as fast as possible from a pocket anyway). I've never been able to quickly draw a semi-automatic from a pants pocket holster as consistently with a full firing grip. The square shape of the rear of the slide will inevitably hang up and slow the draw or cause a fumble.
Not sure about 32 H&R, but I do wish 327 magnum was more common and more compact revolvers (j-frames or 2"ish barreled similar) were chambered in it.
Closer to 380. Nowhere near 9x19 in power or effective bullet design.
Nor are there any decent guns (for self defense and concealed carry) chambered in it. (I do love my East German Makarov and CZ-82 for range fun though!)
My understanding is the Russians now use 9x19 for their service sidearm.
I picked up a P365SAS, a ported version, this gun is amazing for rapid fire strings! I agree, a bit chunky for pocket carry, but not too bad
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