9mm vs 357mag in a snubbie

[Buckeye63]

Very good video .. comparing a 9mm & 357 mag in a snub …

9mm+P VS .357 Magnum in SNUBS - Speer Gold Dot 'Short Barrel' Ammunition - Ballistic Gel Test

Testing the Speer Gold Dot "Short Barrel" ammunition in .357 Magnum and 9mm+P. The .357 Magnum is a 135 gr JHP rated at 990 FPS and the 9mm+P is a 124 gr JHP...

youtu.be

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Rather mild 357 in the comparison, but he addresses that some in the comments.

 

[Rock185]

Interesting. I'd never claim that 9mm is equal to .357, but I've found the 9mm cartridge to be pretty efficient in the little 2"-3" revolvers.

Just one example; the 9mm Federal HST 124+P averages 1195 FPS in my 2" revolver, and 1291 FPS in a 3". Perhaps not equal to .357 ballistics, but quite respectable I think..

 

[PavelSJ]

Very good video .. comparing a 9mm & 357 mag in a snub …

9mm+P VS .357 Magnum in SNUBS - Speer Gold Dot 'Short Barrel' Ammunition - Ballistic Gel Test

Testing the Speer Gold Dot "Short Barrel" ammunition in .357 Magnum and 9mm+P. The .357 Magnum is a 135 gr JHP rated at 990 FPS and the 9mm+P is a 124 gr JHP...

youtu.be

The Short Barrel .38 Special +p and Short Barrel .357 Magnum Speer loads are weak.

 

[TTv2]

Even if the .357 was a bit more powerful I doubt it would make a drastic difference. The benefit to the 9mm is the lower price to practice, the hollow points between both calibers are always going to be about the same, but I figure 9mm a bit cheaper because it's so popular.

One of the reasons 9mm holds up in a snub revolver is because the jump to the cone is longer than normal for typical revolver cartridges and the 9mm bullet is supported by the long throat, so it has time to build velocity without much friction from the rifling being cut into it.

Really, any shorter cartridge in a properly chambered cylinder that has a long throat will see a velocity benefit.

I've never been interested much in a .357 snub because it's a lot of energy wasted. .38 has some benefits (I've always liked the double round ball load) but for one solid bullet I think a .32 is better. 9mm is very practical in a snub, so I like it and since the .327 and 9mm both share a common loading of 115 grain projectiles, I own both in the Taurus J frame.

 

[PavelSJ]

Properly dimentioned cylinder for short cartridges sssms like wishful thinking. Last one I have seen was Taurus .380 revolver. Alfa Proj no longer makes 9mm with short unflated cylinder. We are lucky to have 9mm revolvers with .38/.357 build.

 

[TTv2]

Properly dimentioned cylinder for short cartridges sssms like wishful thinking. Last one I have seen was Taurus .380 revolver. Alfa Proj no longer makes 9mm with short unflated cylinder. We are lucky to have 9mm revolvers with .38/.357 build.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there is a benefit to having a long cylinder, long throat, short chamber revolver because the longer the bullet has in the smoothbore throat to build velocity, the more it's going to have coming out a short barrel.

Although, this may only be the case with a caliber that has a high PSI like the 9mm does (35k PSI) vs something like .45 ACP which is 21K PSI. IDK, someone who has a 3.5" Ruger Blackhawk in .45 ACP and .45 Colt do a velocity test and get back to me.

 

[Quanah]

I have a ported, 2" Taurus 617T in 357 Mag, which produces 1203 fps with Federal AE, 158 grain JSP.

 

[Styx]

It's kind of a misleading video title. It has those who are casual gun owners believing 9mm is just as powerful than 357 mag especially out of a short barrel. I reckon that can be true if we use +p 9mm vs a 357 mag load that's purposely downgrade and underpowered to be a .38 special so that recoil and flash is less. Case in point, many of the people I see commenting in the video are of the impression that 9mm beats 357 mag.

 

[WisBorn]

The loads that Gun Sam tested is a great example of manufacturers developing loads to make the FBI standards. Speer can develop a 38 +p that will perform the same way.

 

[MIKR410]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there is a benefit to having a long cylinder, long throat, short chamber revolver because the longer the bullet has in the smoothbore throat to build velocity, the more it's going to have coming out a short barrel.

Although, this may only be the case with a caliber that has a high PSI like the 9mm does (35k PSI) vs something like .45 ACP which is 21K PSI. IDK, someone who has a 3.5" Ruger Blackhawk in .45 ACP and .45 Colt do a velocity test and get back to me.

I have seen tests of .45 acp from S&W Governors that show significant fps drops when compared to similar bullet travel in semi autos. .45 acp from the Governor has about as long of long cylinder, long throat, short cartridge scenario as you can find.

👊They All Fall to Hardball! ⚾ S&W Governor Best Ammunition Solution?

Testing out some .45 ACP 230 gr FMJ "ball" ammo in my S&W Governor in a ballistic test. It's been known the that Governor has larger chambers than a .45 auto...

m.youtube.com

 

[PavelSJ]

There is good 3" Ruger LCRx (same frame as .357 just chambered for 9x19) just listed on Guns International by fella from Montana for $625. States NIB with free shipping so if you live in lower 48 in Red State and find FFL for $25 you should be gtg. I try to mention something I would actually buy myself.
The easiest way to convince someone that .357 is > 9x19 is to simply say it holds more pellets in anti-snake bird shot cartridges. If that doesn't convince them rattle off ballistics of Federal HST 154gr .357 load (4" test barrel).

 

[WisBorn]

I have seen tests of .45 acp from S&W Governors that show significant fps drops when compared to similar bullet travel in semi autos. .45 acp from the Governor has about as long of long cylinder, long throat, short cartridge scenario as you can find.

👊They All Fall to Hardball! ⚾ S&W Governor Best Ammunition Solution?

Testing out some .45 ACP 230 gr FMJ "ball" ammo in my S&W Governor in a ballistic test. It's been known the that Governor has larger chambers than a .45 auto...

m.youtube.com

Member @Michael Tinker Pearce mentions velocities from his 2" snubby 45acp compared to his combat master 3.25"
They are nearly identical....

S&W M1917 Snubby A Retro Rod Revolver

In this modern age of sub-compact service-caliber handguns there is little place for a big-bore snubby. Or is there? It's arguable, but what isn't arguable...

youtu.be

 

[Buckeye63]

Powerful is as powerful does .. as a self defense cartridge… against a human is different than a wild animal that is trying to eat you ..
Across the board .. they are alot of Self defense 9mm cartridges that function from shorter barrels, due to the influx of micro 9’s …

With the 357mag for a snubbie you have 38spl , 38spl +P and 357mg weights from 110gr to 180grs

The 9mm you have loads from 90grs to 150grs
Standard pressure to +P , +P+
But unlike the the 357 .. alot will function with a short barrel

Im a huge fan of the 357 mag .. great for SD and even hunting hawgs and Whitetail

But a 9mm snubbie with a shorter cylinder with a longer barrel/ forcing cone would allow a longer barrel without effecting the OAL of the revolver also shorting the freebore distance

 

[Buckeye63]

I have seen tests of .45 acp from S&W Governors that show significant fps drops when compared to similar bullet travel in semi autos. .45 acp from the Governor has about as long of long cylinder, long throat, short cartridge scenario as you can find.

👊They All Fall to Hardball! ⚾ S&W Governor Best Ammunition Solution?

Testing out some .45 ACP 230 gr FMJ "ball" ammo in my S&W Governor in a ballistic test. It's been known the that Governor has larger chambers than a .45 auto...

m.youtube.com

45ACP .. fun to shoot…

 

[MIKR410]

View attachment 1244122
45ACP .. fun to shoot…

Agreed, I always have a good time shooting .45 acp from my governor. What are your feelings on their rimless cartridge cylinder retention system?

I do wish that Charter Arms made their 9mm, .40 s&w, .41 mag, .45 acp and .45 Colt revolvers with a 3" barrel however. Their 3" Pitbull in .380 ACP and .3" Bulldog Classic in .44 spc are way to fun.

Honestly I wish they just chambered their Bulldog Classic in everything from .32 h&r to .45 Colt. I would buy the whole line.

 

[Styx]

I still prefer rimmed cartages out of revolvers even more so for defensive revolvers. 38 +p for small lightweight snubs, and 357 for big heavy 30+ oz snubs. I see 9mm revolvers the same way I see the Glock 44, which is as a more affordable trainer or to shoot plinker.

 

[WisBorn]

I still prefer rimmed cartages out of revolvers even more so for defensive revolvers. 38 +p for small lightweight snubs, and 357 for big heavy 30+ oz snubs. I see 9mm revolvers the same way I see the Glock 44, which is as a more affordable trainer or to shoot plinker.

I have never owned a revolver chambered in a semiautomatic cartridge. Messing with moon clips seams like a pain. Just my opinion

 

[Styx]

I have never owned a revolver chambered in a semiautomatic cartridge. Messing with moon clips seams like a pain. Just my opinion

Agreed. Plus you can only EDC spare ammo in those flimsy moon clips (speed strips and loaders aren't really optional). You can't top off as well. I'd buy one of those Taurus revolvers with the quick detach 9mm and 38/357 cylinders so I can shoot at the range and even train inexpensively, but I can't see myself every carrying or buying a 9mm only revolver.

 

[jmr40]

It's kind of a misleading video title. It has those who are casual gun owners believing 9mm is just as powerful than 357 mag especially out of a short barrel.

It is really about barrel length, and bullet weight. NATO spec 9mm ammo calls for 1250 fps with 124 gr bullets from a 4" barrel. From 5" barrels 1300 fps isn't uncommon. That's actually what most of the world has been loading 9mm to since WW-2 and should be considered a standard 9mm load. Traditionally USA made 9mm loads were a pretty anemic 1100 fps with a 115 gr bullet. Most manufacturers now load their SD 9mm ammo pretty much to match NATO specs although a lot of plinking FMJ is still loaded pretty light.

Ballistics charts show 125 gr 357 mag loads at 1500 fps. But from 8" barrels. Those same loads from 4" barrels pretty much equal the best 9mm loads from a 4" barrel and won't quite match 9mm from 3" or shorter barrels. But because of the difference in how barrel length is measured a semi with a 4.5" barrel is about the same overall length as a 3" revolver. It's pretty safe to say that 9mm loads will pretty much match 357 mag loads from equal size guns when firing 124/125 gr bullets.

And I'm not just guessing. My chronograph confirms this.

If someone is willing to carry a 357 revolver with a 6" or longer barrel, then 357 Mag is clearly superior. And if you start loading bullets 158-200 gr in a 357 Mag revolver 9mm has no answer for that. I have both 9mm and 357 Mag, both have their place.

 

[fxvr5]

Ballistics charts show 125 gr 357 mag loads at 1500 fps. But from 8" barrels. Those same loads from 4" barrels pretty much equal the best 9mm loads from a 4" barrel and won't quite match 9mm from 3" or shorter barrels. But because of the difference in how barrel length is measured a semi with a 4.5" barrel is about the same overall length as a 3" revolver. It's pretty safe to say that 9mm loads will pretty much match 357 mag loads from equal size guns when firing 124/125 gr bullets.

And I'm not just guessing. My chronograph confirms this.

Published 357 ballistics for a 125 grain bullet are 1450 fps from a 4" vented barrel. My chronograph clocks Remington 125 SJHP as 1465 fps from my 4" S&W and 1689 fps from my 7" S&W.

edited to add: A internet search shows a bunch of 357 Magnum 125 grain rounds chronographed at the link below. Their 125 grain rounds included standard and reduced loads and how they match with what the manufacturers publish.

An NRA Shooting Sports Journal | .357 SIG vs. .357 Magnum: Which Is More Powerful?

As two high performance medium handgun calibers, it’s inevitable that .357 SIG and .357 Magnum will be compared.

www.ssusa.org

 

[Styx]

It is really about barrel length, and bullet weight. NATO spec 9mm ammo calls for 1250 fps with 124 gr bullets from a 4" barrel. From 5" barrels 1300 fps isn't uncommon. That's actually what most of the world has been loading 9mm to since WW-2 and should be considered a standard 9mm load. Traditionally USA made 9mm loads were a pretty anemic 1100 fps with a 115 gr bullet. Most manufacturers now load their SD 9mm ammo pretty much to match NATO specs although a lot of plinking FMJ is still loaded pretty light.

Ballistics charts show 125 gr 357 mag loads at 1500 fps. But from 8" barrels. Those same loads from 4" barrels pretty much equal the best 9mm loads from a 4" barrel and won't quite match 9mm from 3" or shorter barrels. But because of the difference in how barrel length is measured a semi with a 4.5" barrel is about the same overall length as a 3" revolver. It's pretty safe to say that 9mm loads will pretty much match 357 mag loads from equal size guns when firing 124/125 gr bullets.

And I'm not just guessing. My chronograph confirms this.

If someone is willing to carry a 357 revolver with a 6" or longer barrel, then 357 Mag is clearly superior. And if you start loading bullets 158-200 gr in a 357 Mag revolver 9mm has no answer for that. I have both 9mm and 357 Mag, both have their place.

Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition - Ballistic Testing Data

Lucky Gunner tests more than 110 different 9mm, 45 ACP, 40 S&W and 380 ACP handgun self-defense ammunition loads in ballistic gel with analysis and video.

www.luckygunner.com

.38 Special and .357 Magnum Self-Defense Ammo Ballistics Test - LuckyGunner.com Labs

We conducted ballistics gelatin tests for 38 self-defense revolver loads in 38 Special and 357 Magnum. Here are the full results along with photos and video

www.luckygunner.com

Then we also have Underwood numbers, Paul Harrell did a video on the topic, and there are other individuals videos.

The Lucky Gunner testing, you can see velocity of as much as over 1400 fps out of a 2" barrel and 125 gr.

So now 9mm is as powerful as .40 and .357 mag in similar barrel lengths I reckon.

 

[ms6852]

To the novice shooter or inexperienced shooter the video can be very misleading. I carry a .357 686 with a 3" barrel. My hand loads chrono at 1250 fps using 125gr bullets and with the 158gr hydrashok bullets about 1150.

The versatility of the .357 far out shines the 9mm. The video is misleading because you can get a 22 magnum to give you the same penetration that the 9mm and .357 covered in the video with the gel block. One can get all kinds of calibers to perform in a gel block to the same penetration. The younger generation not of age now and hooked on electronic devices and wanting immediate results and answers will see this video as the definitive gospel between 9mm and .357. and may make purchases based on this when they become of age. To me the video is only good for entertainment.

 

[fxvr5]

There's a lot of misinformation on the web about the 357 Mag. e.g. it has been watered down since it was introduced. spoiler - it hasn't. But this misinformation shows up in YouTube videos and on forums.

 

[TTv2]

I have seen tests of .45 acp from S&W Governors that show significant fps drops when compared to similar bullet travel in semi autos. .45 acp from the Governor has about as long of long cylinder, long throat, short cartridge scenario as you can find.

👊They All Fall to Hardball! ⚾ S&W Governor Best Ammunition Solution?

Testing out some .45 ACP 230 gr FMJ "ball" ammo in my S&W Governor in a ballistic test. It's been known the that Governor has larger chambers than a .45 auto...

m.youtube.com

The .410 revolvers don't apply to my theory because those aren't just long throats, they're long chambers. The longer the chamber, the more time gas is allowed to blow by the bullet before it hits the throat and the throats in the .410 revolvers (at least the Judge, IDK about the Governors) are sized to .458" which is much larger than the .452" of .45 bullets, so there's still more gas leak and lack of supporting the bullet to the forcing cone.