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9x19 vs 9mm Parabelum vs 9mm Luger

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by creitzel, Mar 7, 2006.

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  1. creitzel

    creitzel Member

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    I have seen these terms thrown around on various web sites. Are these all the same cartridge? If not, what are the differences between them? Just a newbie wondering about terminology :)

    Thanks for any info you can give me,

    Chris
     
  2. Bill2k1

    Bill2k1 Member

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    9X19 and 9mm luger are the same. I think parabelum is too, but I have never run into it. As far as I know the only 9mm that isn't what you think a 9mm should be is 9mm Markov, that stuff is like 9x18 or something.
     
  3. spooney

    spooney Member

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    9X19 describes the cartridge by its diameter and length

    9mm Luger describes the cartridge by its inventor Georg Luger

    9mm Parabellum describes the cartridge by its purpose 9mm for war

    There is also 9mm Makarov or 9X18, which is a russian service round, 9mm Browning which is the 380 auto, 9X21 which is known as 38 super, and a whole host of other 9mm.
     
  4. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    .38 Super is 9x23mm as is 9mm winchester magnum. Offhand I think there are at least three 9x21mm. And there are two 9mm Brownings the Short AKA .380 ACP and the Long.

    Of course there loads more 9mm pistol cartiages are there...

    -Bill
     
  5. eastwood44mag

    eastwood44mag Member

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    The 3 you mentioned are all equivalent.

    Try going into a gun shop, and asking for 9x19. The reactions are priceless.
     
  6. Black Majik

    Black Majik Member

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    9x19 : 9mm parabellum, 9mm Luger, 9mm NATO

    9x18 : 9mm Makarov

    9x17 : .380 ACP, 9mm short, 9mm corto, 9mm Browning short

    :)
     
  7. Steelharp

    Steelharp Member

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    Hey, Majik... don't forget 9mm kurz... ;)
     
  8. akodo

    akodo Member

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    ???

    more info please.

    are you seriously telling me this stumps your gun shop guys, or that they just think you are a militia wacko, gamerkid, or something?

    Maybe I could see this stumping the local pimpleface walmart type in a supereverything store, or even in a general sporting goods store, but in a gunshop?
     
  9. Black Majik

    Black Majik Member

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    Holy moly! I forgot! :D
     
  10. creitzel

    creitzel Member

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    Wow

    Thanks for all of the replies :) It seems that the topic is even more confusing than I had seen so far lol.

    Thanks again,

    Chris
     
  11. creitzel

    creitzel Member

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    Oh, and mods, sorry I posted in the wrong place thanks for moving it :)
     
  12. hurrakane212

    hurrakane212 Member

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    Not really

    Not really that confusing. If you ask for 9mm you will get 9X19, NATO, Parabellum.
    The other stuff may be a "9mm" in truth...
    but you will have to specify. Otherwise the clerk will hand you a box of 9mm/9X19/NATO/Parabellum.~Nathan
     
  13. Hemicuda

    Hemicuda member

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    Ain't there a "9MM Largo" also?
     
  14. Big Gay Al

    Big Gay Al Member

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    Yup, and a 9mm Ultra as well.
     
  15. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    AKA 9mm Police and 9x18(not the same as Makarov)

    -Bill
     
  16. Big Gay Al

    Big Gay Al Member

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    I don't think it's the same. The 9mm Makarov could more accurately be called the 9.2mm, as the diameter is .363, in stead of the .355 that the 9x19mm round is, in English measurement.
     
  17. Rockstar

    Rockstar member

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    They're not just "equivalent", they're the same. ;)
     
  18. Medusa

    Medusa Member

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    well, the 9x19 mm is called 9 Luger in US and 9 Para (or Parabellum) in Europe. At least that's what i know about it.
     
  19. Big Gay Al

    Big Gay Al Member

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    If you're referring to the main subject, then yes, like everyone else has said, 9x19mm, 9mm Luger, and 9mm Parabellum are all the same. I guess it just depends on what you want to call them.

    If you ask me, there's too darn many 9mm variations. ;)
     
  20. perpster

    perpster Member

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    "Parabellum"

    "Parabellum" means "prepare for war"
     
  21. eastwood44mag

    eastwood44mag Member

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    Mostly the former. This is a college town, and most of the employees are college kids. Yes, it is fairly easy to stump them.
     
  22. HammerBite

    HammerBite Member

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    Don't forget 9X21 IMI.
     
  23. MrBigStuff

    MrBigStuff Member

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    Heard two things from reputable sources

    I've heard all three are interchangable and I've also heard 9mm Parabellum is traditionally loaded " hotter" and designed for use specifically in submachine guns. Don't have a 9mm so
     
  24. Archie

    Archie Member

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    Not Exactly...

    Not exactly. During the last part of WWII, Germany was running out of basic components – lead, for example. They started using ‘sintered’ (compressed or MIM) mild steel bullets in 9mm Parabellum ammo. Those bullets were lighter than the standard lead core bullets. In order to produce the standard pressure, the charges were adjusted (jacked up) to make the guns work. So the lighter bullet going faster was thought of as ‘hotter’. It was the same pressure as the regular lead core ammo. Which is somewhat higher than the ammo loaded in the U. S.

    Some U. S. munitions makers started manufacturing 9mm ‘Lugar’ ammo (don’t know why they changed the name, but marketing has always been a mystery to me) for the British Army to use in Sten submachinguns. U. S. munitions makers seem to be a conservative bunch and the pressure levels were keep at minimal ranges, to not blow up anything. The result being the ammo would not correctly work the Sten gun; it would not always move the bolt far enough to the rear to engage the sear when the trigger was released. This caused the Sten guns to continue to fire until the magazine was empty. This in turn caused the British Army to mark the ammo “Not for submachinegun use”. This information trickled back to the U. S. but was garbled into the myth ‘submachinegun ammo’ was more powerful and would destroy American handguns.

    Think about this for a moment: Would any government load a ‘special lot’ of any ammunition that would destroy some guns? Proof test ammo is not general issue. ‘Sabotage’ ammo left for insurgents to blow themselves up is not general issue. No Army every knowingly issued ammo to its own troops dangerous to be fired.

    The same sort thing happened in the U. S. .357 Magnum ammo used to be loaded with 158 grain bullets. In the 1970s or so, Federal (I think) picked up on Lee Jurras’ idea of ‘SuperVel’ ammo and developed a 115 grain bullet at very high velocity in the .357 Magnum. This ammo would sometimes crack the forcing cones of S&W “K” frame model 19 revolvers. The ammo was still loaded to the same maximum pressure levels; but the stress on the barrel was different. Still, this lead to the belief the 115 grain ammo was ‘hotter’; generated more pressure. Does that sound familiar?



    Okay, European ammo has always been loaded to higher pressure levels than the equivalent U. S. ammo. U. S. made 8x57 Mauser ammo is weaker than the European versions. Even .38 Special is loaded stronger in Europe. Europe (at least used to) thinks if you put modern ammo in an old gun and blow yourself up, you’re a dummy. It’s probably changing. Still European ammo will not ‘blow up’ a properly made American gun. It might wear out faster, but it won’t explode.
     
  25. Big Gay Al

    Big Gay Al Member

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    Yup, mostly chambered in Spanish made guns.
    (9mm Largo that is)
     
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