Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

A 22lr mystery (for me at least)

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Psa1m144, Feb 19, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Psa1m144

    Psa1m144 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    WA
    I can't imagine that this hasn't been discussed in the past, but I can't find it in any searches. Why on earth do 22lr semi-auto pistols only hold 10 rounds. With how small the cartridges are, they should be able to fit 20-30 in a magazine. I am confident in gun manufacturers intelligence and creativity and the technology has to be out there. Am I the only one that would buy one of these? There has to be something I am overlooking. I would even settle for some aftermarket extended mags.
     
  2. TonyT

    TonyT Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,353
    Location:
    Michigan
    A magazine for a rimmed cartridge requires a bit more room (front to back) than for a rimless cartridge. That being said one can purchase 15 rd. 22 magazines for the Ciener 1911 - 22 conversion unit.
     
  3. Starter52

    Starter52 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,686
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    TonyT is correct; also it is difficult to stack up a lot of rimmed .22 cartridges without jamming. This is the reason why so many cheap aftermarket hi-cap .22 magazines don't work. It can be done (my GSG-5 hold 22 rounds and functions perfectly), but some engineering is required. A rotary (Ruger 10/22 style) magazine solves the problem.
     
  4. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Just for your own info.

    Take 30 rounds of any rimfire ammo and lay them side by side on the kictchen table with bullets and rims touching.

    See why they won't fit in a straight magazine now??

    rc
     
  5. J2FLAN

    J2FLAN Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    268
    Location:
    Calhoun Tn.
    The new COLT GOV. 22 holds 12--its a start;)
     
  6. Psa1m144

    Psa1m144 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    WA
    I understand that it would be more difficult than a magazine designed for centerfire ammo. What I am saying is that, there are plenty of very talented gunsmiths and gun manufacturers out there with the know-how to pull it off.

    For example:
    Take the 22/45 magazine. If you put 2 of those side by side, flipped one upside down and linked them together so that the ammo would go down one then up into the other, you would have a 20 round mag no longer than the original and no wider than a normal doublestack mag. This would take a unique spring/tension system, but I think it's possible. There have been far more impressive advances in firearm technology than this.

    Is the gun industry truly stumped by this? Or like I said before, is there no market for it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  7. johnnydollar

    johnnydollar Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    418
    Kel-Tec managed to stuff thirty rds of .22 Win. Mag. into their PMR-30 pistol. How 'bout that one?
     
  8. Psa1m144

    Psa1m144 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    WA
    They were supposed to make a conversion kit for 22lr but they never did from what I can find. I have no use for the expensive 22 wmr.
     
  9. gbran

    gbran Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    2,967
    Location:
    california
    My Magnum Research Mountain Eagle has 15 rnd mags. The recent Kel-Tec 22wmr holds 30, but I get your point; you'd think hi-cap mags would be common.
     
  10. Kush

    Kush Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    It wouldn't work due to the rims changing the angle that the next cartridge would be at, each cartridge slowly gets more and more angled. In a 10 round single stack magazine the 10th round is at a 20 degree angle to the first and in a 15 round single stack magazine the 15th round is already at a 30 degree angle to the first, can't tell you about double stack magazines as the .22 ammunition that I'm using won't cooperate as I stack it on my desk, but as you can see it isn't exactly friendly for a magazine required to fit inside of a pistol grip, defiantly with how the first round is already slightly angled to make it feed more reliably. Also the .22 wmr that the Kel Tec pmr 30 uses are longer and therefore don't start angling as much as .22 lr
     
  11. plexreticle

    plexreticle Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    1,240
    Grendel p30 is also a 30 round rimfire.

    No idea why high cap. isn't more common. Perhaps most popular 22LR pistols are fairly old designs.
     
  12. kozak6

    kozak6 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    887
    Location:
    Arizona
    Double stack magazines .22 lr magazines are very difficult to make work well.

    A friend of mine had the 50 round double stack Ramline magazine for his 10/22. It caused lots of jams. Until it broke in, it would leave your thumbs bleeding and you won't be able to get more than 30 rounds in.

    Later on, it was out of commission for a few years since a round had leaned over into the other stack and locked the whole thing up.

    Their double stack magazines functioned so poorly that Ramline discontinued the whole line.

    The Grendel/Keltec is an unconventional design and is basically two single stack magazines that feed into the same column.
     
  13. lathedog

    lathedog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2006
    Messages:
    270
    22LR is a tricky beast. It is outside lubed, typically uses dirty powder, has inconsistent priming, has a relatively soft case with soft rim.

    I think, bottom line, the consumer has been relatively satisfied with 22LR pistols holding 10 (or 12, or 15) rounds.

    If Keltec made a 22LR version of their P-30, and sales went thru the roof, the other manufacturers might invest in designing a higher capacity 22LR and try to get some of that customer base. Or. more likely, they would make a knock-off copy of the Keltec and then earn many prestigious industry awards for creativity and "changing the game". Sound familiar?
     
  14. RustHunter87

    RustHunter87 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    MAINE
    you guys the 22LR has been around for over a century and the WMR has been around since the 60's and the kaltec came out last year, so the 22 high cap is like the most advanced bit of rimfire tec out there
     
  15. BCRider

    BCRider Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Messages:
    7,714
    Location:
    Pacific North"Wet" Coast of Canada
    Where there's a will there's a way.

    Consider this. If the rounds are just simple stacked then sure, a long stack of them creates a bannana shape. Hence why most high capacity rimfire mags for rifles and such are curved.

    But what if the rounds are single stacked at the bullet but staggered to a double stack setup at the back? The side to side staggering would compensate for the larger diameter of the rims. And of course the last 5 or so rounds would rise up through a tapered rear section of the magazine to arrive in true single stack condition at the top.

    I don't recall which gun it was but I've seen this on a rimfire magazine at some point in the last year. It was only a 10 rounder as well. But I could see a handgun mag holding more like 12 or 14 rounds.

    Higher capacities than this would likely not happen. To do so you'd need to run a full on double stack magazine. Something that a rimmed case likely would not do well. Also more than any other handgun .22 pistols are intended to be junior and small hands friendly. Going to a 15 to 20 round double stack setup would buld up the grip area quite a big.

    Finally there's enough states or countries where handguns are limited to 10 rounds that it may just not be economically worthwhile to make 12 to 14 round mags for the states where there is no limit.
     
  16. langenc

    langenc Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    921
    Location:
    Montmorency Co, MI
    If you want to just 'spray and pray' stick w/ a 10/22..

    22 matches require shooting only 10 rounds. No need for 20 or 30.
     
  17. Myles

    Myles Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2007
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Western NC
    Smith & Wesson makes 12 round magazines for the 41, 2206, 422, 622.

    The PMR-30 uses a true side-by-side, double stacked magazine akin to modern rifle magazines, rather than the usual tapered centerfire pistol magazines. If it can be done with .22WMR, it could be done with .22LR, but apparently the demand isn't there yet.
     
  18. Geneseo1911

    Geneseo1911 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,016
    Location:
    South of I-80, PR of IL
    Well, I for one agree with the OP. Those 10rd. mags in my 22/45 run out way too fast. I'd like to buy some more so I don't have to do so much loading, but Midway never seems to have them.

    If someone came out with a higher capacity .22 pistol, especially one that mimicked common centerfire guns, I'd be very interested.

    Maybe a .22 BHP....wouldn't that be sweet.
     
  19. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,276
    Location:
    Kodiak, AK
    Why hasn't someone come up with a rimless .22 "auto"?
     
  20. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    3,129
    I don't know, but I figure making a rimless rimfire would be kind of challenging.
     
  21. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    7,005
    Location:
    Frozen North
    look up RIMLOCK
    and that's why

    Kodiak, what about the .17 center fires?
    how would you do it, and .22 head spaces on the rim, which makes chambers and actions easy to make.
     
  22. F-111 John

    F-111 John Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    956
    Location:
    Holt, MI
    As mentioned before, Kel Tec managed to double stack the rimmed .22 WMR. I've heard they're working on a .22 LR version. Perhaps the shorter case length makes .22 LR harder to double stack?

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    4,916
    Location:
    Winston-Salem, NC
    That's a lot of trouble to go to just to get a few extra rounds. Nobody thought those extra rounds were all that important until they started making 15+ round centerfire mags for police and home defense weapons. I'm not sure they really DO consider the extra rounds all that important for a gun that is generally NOT used in critical situations.)

    (They are still a LOT of 5- and 6-round revolvers being made and sold.)
     
  24. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,276
    Location:
    Kodiak, AK
    I think it would work though. You could have the firing pin fall opposite the extractor to create an "anvil" for the rimfire. Other than that, it would just be a matter of forming the cases differently. A centerfire .22 would be too expensive for the training and plinking we do with most .22's.

    Though, as Shadow points out you'd probably have to redesign weapons to use them because of the headspacing. You could design a broad, stiff extractor as both an anvil and as a way to headspace the round.

    Imagine a Hi Power or Glock conversion unit with 30 round mags. I could have a lot of fun with a gun like that.
     
  25. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    2,908
    Location:
    Virginia
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page