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"A brother is murdered..."

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Preacherman, Sep 18, 2003.

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  1. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    I have confirmed the story below, which is circulating by e-mail. I received it via the API List.

    Mr. Givens and Mr. Yeager are instructors at Rangemaster - if you want to read their bio's, see here.

    Let this be a warning to all of us...

     
  2. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    Truly sad...you never know where a threat will come from(70 yr old man),or when(hanging out w/ daughter).......carry always,be alert,pray.Alot of people say "that would never happen to me"......even the people it happens to..:(
     
  3. Hutch

    Hutch Member

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    Sobering indeed. Lord, what a mess. That poor child...
     
  4. hillbilly

    hillbilly Member

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    A link for the actual news article

    http://news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_...&pnpID=319&NewsID=490756&CategoryID=8373&on=0




    A Henry County man has been charged with the Saturday murder of a Jackson man at a Springville-area boat ramp.

    The body of Ronald J. Walker, 39, was found at the Broadview Road ramp east of Springville by Deputy Billy Smith of the Henry County Sheriff’s Department. His accused killer, James D. Haynes, 72, of 88 Darrell Drive east of Springville, was arrested at his home for first-degree murder by investigator Gary Vandiver of the department’s Criminal Investigation Division early Sunday. According to the report, Walker was visiting the lake in the company of family members when the incident occurred.

    Walker was backing a white Lincoln Navigator and boat trailer down the ramp around 7 p.m. when Haynes walked up to the driver’s side and began to confront him.

    Witnesses said Haynes accused Walker of shooting his dog. Walker stepped out of the vehicle, and the two began what officers called “a verbal disagreement.â€

    Haynes then allegedly pulled out a gun, shooting Walker twice. After Walker collapsed on the ground, Haynes fired another round into the victim’s head.

    “There were several witnesses, including his daughter and some other family members,†said Henry County Sheriff David Bumpus. The daughter is 4-1/2 years old, Bumpus said.

    According to the report, other family members who witnessed the shooting were Walker’s sister and brother-in-law.

    After the shooting, Haynes left the area, walking up a nearby hill. Officers located Haynes locked in his mobile home later Saturday night. An hour-long standoff ensued. Officers cut the power to the home. Director Damon Lowe later was able to talk Haynes out. Haynes laid a revolver on the ground prior to his arrest. Bumpus said Monday morning that the investigation into the murder is proceeding, with the help of investigators from the TBI and FBI.

    “We do have a lot of hard evidence in this case that we’re just making sure that we proceed cautiously on, and we’re working closely with other agencies,†Bumpus said.

    Bumpus said federal agents were called in because the crime occurred on a federal wildlife refuge.

    “We’ve got a real good working relationship with the agents that were here the other night, and we’re moving ahead very carefully because of the sensitivity of this matter,†Bumpus said.

    More information about the case may be released mid-week, Bumpus said. Haynes was held without bond. He was arraigned Tuesday in General Sessions Court in Paris.

    (Used by permission of the Paris Post Intelligencer.)
     
  5. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    The moral of the story which I've stressed to my wife and daughters over and over:

    It's better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have it.

    They still don't get it...
     
  6. Betty

    Betty Member

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    I keep sharing stories like that with my dad in hopes that he would be more diligent in carrying a gun at his hardware store. He'll tote his little Colt Gov't .380, but not while working. He still won't carry it chambered.

    Shortly before we moved to TN, the previous owner of our hardware store was murdered in the basement.

    Carry all the time.
     
  7. TheeBadOne

    TheeBadOne Member

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    Nemo sine vitio est
    A good point here is the killer's age. Older people are automatically assumed to be nice old grandparently types. If you read about someone getting into it with a "Senior Citizen" you automatically think "Jerk, picking on an old person". Well, here's the news flash, old people come in all shapes/sizes just like anyone else. Charles Manson will soon be a senior citizen, can he be described as "a harmless old man"? If the killer didn't have a gun but had started punching the victim and the victim protected himself by knocking the old man down he'd probably have been vilified in some paper "reporting" on the incident. Exercise caution with ALL people.
    Prayers for his family and friends.
    :(
     
  8. einnor1040

    einnor1040 Member

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    A sad story indeed.
     
  9. Keith

    Keith Member

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    I'm not defending the shooter, but here we see another case of somebody shooting another over a dog.
    No doubt, the victim (if he indeed shot the dog) had been taught the "tacticality" of shooting canines, etc... S.O.P for every tactical/ninja training course out there. So, maybe he saw a loose dog and maybe the dog growled at somebody - whatever, the dog was shot.

    And as has been seen many times before, shooting a mans dog is liable to draw gunfire, even long after the fact in this case.


    Keith
     
  10. pax

    pax Member

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    The lessons:
    • Knowing how to shoot is not enough. Carry your gun.
    • Knowing how to shoot is not enough. Pay attention to your surroundings.
    • If someone is yelling at you and he reaches in his pocket or behind him, he's probably not going to pull out a bouquet of flowers for you. Get away.
    • If someone wants to yell at you, you don't have to get out of the car to let him do it. You could just drive away ...
    Tragic, tragic story. I really feel for the man's little girl. :(

    pax
     
  11. blades67

    blades67 Member

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    They get it, they just don't have the personal power to deal with it. The Warrior's Spirit, or the will to be ruthless in the face of a threat, isn't inside most people.
     
  12. sm

    sm member

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    Thoughts for the little girl whom witnessed, and the rest of the family as well. Tragic.

    Reminder for us all to keep sharp and not be complacent. "Comforting not comfortable". Mindset, training , holster and belt more important than the brand name/money it cost/ tricked out uber blaster not carried...or afraid to carry.
     
  13. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    The little girl is going to spend the rest of her life with the knowledge her father was murdered in cold blood over a dog.

    That's more than enough reason always to pack iron.
     
  14. FPrice

    FPrice Member

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    pax...

    "* If someone is yelling at you and he reaches in his pocket or behind him, he's probably not going to pull out a bouquet of flowers for you. Get away."

    I would suggest that at face-to-face argueing range this will most likely not save you. You are in the "kill zone" at that point. About the only logical choice then is to close to hand-to-hand combat. Running away from an angry man with a gun will most likely get you shot in the back.

    What do others think?
     
  15. justashooter

    justashooter member

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    i agree 100%. if you are unarmed and another person draws a gun on you at contact range with malicious intent, you have no choice. you must counter with superior aggression and without hesitation. there is "no second place winner". no matter what, the prime directive is survival of self and progeny. everyone else is expendable.

    what a horrible shame that men in our generation are largely trained to aversion to violence, even in the form of self defense.

    never draw your gun unless you are prepared to discharge it, and never let another person in contact range bring their gun to bear. take it away from them with a violence that exceeds their own. people are not prepared to be resisted. aggressive resistance is the only path.

    you must counter with superior aggression and without hesitation.
     
  16. NewShooter78

    NewShooter78 Member

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    All of this over a dog. That is a sad statement. I love my dog dearly, but to kill a man over it? I think that's way over the line of any shread of sense. Not only did a little girl see her father murdered, but so did the man's sister and brother-in-law. It leaves me spechless.
     
  17. NIGHTWATCH

    NIGHTWATCH Member

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    To have had a CCW permit, been trained, not have your gun and lose your life like a dog over a dog in front of your child? This is a nightmare. :(
     
  18. twoblink

    twoblink Member

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    I hope the little girl doesn't grow up to be an anti..

    I hope she grows up to become a posterchild for CCW..

    Sad story :(
     
  19. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    Death by gun control

    why was the FBI involved in the investigation???
    I'll tell ya!
    FEDERAL WILDLIFE REFUGE
    it was FEDERAL OFFENSE to bring a gun there.
    I hope the family can bring a lawsuit against the damm
    bureaucrat who wrote that un Godly law.
    the bureaucrats who kill us should be hung.
    reminds me why I won't go to any national park!
     
  20. Nero Steptoe

    Nero Steptoe member

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    Don't think you'd get too far suing; however, this is one of several instances where it's better to risk a Federal offense than to lose one's life.
     
  21. AmericanFreeBird

    AmericanFreeBird Member

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    That is just plain nuts, killing a human over a dog? Put sugar in his gas tank, spray out your thoughts on his lawn with bleach, or perhaps shoot his dog in retalitation but killing him? In front of his children? What sick in the head jerk does such a thing?

    When the value of human life and dignity boils down to that of a dog it's time to always ALWAYS ALWAYS carry a gun, loaded and ready to rock.

    My prayers and thoughts for the family of the victim.

    I've been carrying most of the time since 9/11 but I've not carried all the time. I'll have to reconsider that and make sure I at least have a .25acp on me at all times.

    Always carry.
     
  22. Keith

    Keith Member

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    I live on the edge of a Federal Wildlife Refuge and there is no prohibition against concealed carry.

    Keith
     
  23. Keith

    Keith Member

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    Nope, it just ain't right to kill a man over a dog.

    But it is a reality that certain actions are liable to trigger a violent response. Shooting a mans dog is one of them, calling his wife a name is another, striking his child a third...

    I threw my comment in as another case where the shooting of a pet has resulted in gun play. It's become standard procedure among the "tactical" crowd to "shoot the dog" - you see this in LE raids and you see civilians aping the behavior after getting training from various "experts".

    It's a bad, bad mistake! If you shoot the dog, expect a violent response. If you don't want a violent response, don't shoot the dog.

    In this case we don't know if the guy really shot the dog, or if he did whether that action was justifiable. But a dog got shot and somebody ended up dead because of it.

    I can't help wondering if the instructors at "Rangemaster" (where the dead man got training) have a "Shoot The Dog" policy among their bag of tricks... If so, it was bad advice.

    The next time some tactical ninja instructor advises you to "shoot the dog", demand your money back because the guy is an idiot!

    Keith
     
  24. pax

    pax Member

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    Keith,

    I've taken classes from ... (errr, counting on my fingers ... ummmm, yeah, okay) at least six different instructors -- some of them affiliated with my local school and some big name travelling trainers.

    I have never heard advice to "just shoot the dog" from any of them.

    Sure do hear it a lot online, though.

    pax
     
  25. Keith

    Keith Member

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    Well, the ninja's are getting that "Shoot The Dog" advice from somewhere.

    Keith
     
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