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A Call To Arms - Attention Californians

Discussion in 'Legal' started by JP1954, Jun 1, 2007.

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  1. JP1954

    JP1954 Member

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    I originally posted this in another thread, but upon reflection I decided to use it as a basis for a new thread.

    What we need here in California is an end run around our disgracefull Democratically controlled State government......I would like to see an initiative proposed which would amend the State constitution (thereby disarming AG Jerry "moonbeam" Brown and the other fascist leftists who are either in or have close ties to our judiciary.) I would like the initiative to be titled, "The Citizens Right to Self Defense Act." It will repeal the assault weapon ban, the high cap mag ban, the 10 day waiting period, and all the other sections of the California Penal Code dealing with gun control that have had 0000 effect on crime. Furthermore, it will state that any CITIZEN in the state age 25 or older who has no criminal record or mental health record SHALL be issued a CCW license on demand after completing a written test and a range test demonstrating the knowledge of the law as it pertains to defense and the knowledge of and skilled use of the firearm which is the subject of the CCW license. I believe a proposition like this has a chance to pass. There are democrat citizens here that are opposed to gun control even though they keep voting gun control democrats into office - go figure- can you spell D-I-S-C-O-N-N-E-C-T?)).
    I believe this is going to be the only way we will keep our state from eventually confiscating every firearm from every law abiding citizen which I firmly believe is the end goal of the leftist fascists. If anybody out there knows how to get something like this started, I think now is the right time. Perhaps the NRA can help us with a grassroots campaign.
     
  2. glockman19

    glockman19 Member

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    I like it. Where do I sign?
     
  3. trfcrugby

    trfcrugby Member

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    Sign me up. The gun owners of California need to stop hiding in the shadows, and stop being ashamed of our hobby. The libs make it seem like shooters are all insane, but nearly everyone I know likes to shoot.
     
  4. DrewH

    DrewH Member

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    Last time this was tried, a similar propostion a few years ago in CA, it didn't get enough signatures to go on the ballot. I think you might have more luck with a more narrowly tailored proposition one that just makes CCW shall issue. Most Americans, in CA or out, gun owners and non gun owners, would probably support the waiting period and ban on "assault weapons" Even shall issue failed in a referendum in Missouri, so you still would have an uphill battle with that.

    Good luck and god bless.
     
  5. Patriot-Brewer

    Patriot-Brewer Member

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    Good luck!


    If anything, try it on an off year, not an upcoming presidential election with all the libs and LA/SF wackos pissed off.


    Note:Not all residents of Los Angeles and San Fransisco are wackos...just most of them.:D
     
  6. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    I'd like to have this happen. Really, I would.

    But in California, the initiative process takes $$MONEY$$. Unless there is huge public support already, getting signatures requires paid signature gatherers, at something like $1.50/signature.

    Today, it takes 433,971 signatures to get on the 2008 ballot (see the Secretary of State's page on initiatives.) And you have to allow for duplicates and ineligibles, so you have to pay to collect about 10-20% more than that.

    And that's just the start. Advertising, spokespersons, press conferences, anything to get attention costs money: a TV ad spot can run between $125K and $250K (30 sec? probably, article didn't say), and honestly you need to grind people's brains to mush with them. Here's an article about campaign spending in 2006 (at the web site of a very active political organization). Here's a page talking about who gives money to political candidates.

    I'm not trying to be discouraging; I'm telling you an initiative requires a lot of planning and organizing. They're obviously do-able, there's a bunch on nearly every ballot, but most are funded by industry groups or political parties or unions, with existing volunteer structures.

    jnojr, want to chime in here?
     
  7. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    Ran across this article on TCSDaily.

    Johannes talks about goals for effective communication of info on issues:
     
  8. SoCalShooter

    SoCalShooter Member

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    That's for me to know and not you!
    Ok let me know where to sign up and I will get it sent out to my club also to see if we can get the entire club on it.
     
  9. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    My question is why does someone have to be 25 years old? I would argue that 21 is a suitable age as that is the federal age required to buy a handgun from an FFL. I dont think it is right to penalize people because of their age.

    Out of curiosity how old are you? Its easy to support something when it benefits us, but what if you change that number to 65? Would that be ok?
     
  10. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

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    Good luck with all that. You'll need millions to get a proposition on the ballot.

    Also, what exactly makes Jerry Brown a "leftist facist" ? What has Jerry Brown done that is so bad when it comes to gun rights? What do you even know about the guy?

    Such language will only make fence sitters and possible converts distance themselves from your movement. The reason CA has such gun laws is because the populace wants them. Go down to your supermarket and ask random people about repealing a ban on "Assault Weapons" .. I guarantee you 80% of them will say that they support such a ban.
     
  11. Beatnik

    Beatnik Member

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    I agree with DrewH.

    Things have reversed course in lots of states around the country with respect to gun control. This hasn't been a result of one large initiative: it's been done piecemeal, nickel-and-dime style, just like how gun control largely got on the books in the first place.

    Besides shall-issue, other single items to push for individually would be castle doctrine, cleaning up self defense law verbage, or perhaps reversing CA's particular bans (isn't there something banning under X size pistols?).
     
  12. bruss01

    bruss01 Member

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    The NRA won't support anything that can advance gun rights except try to get conservatives elected.

    The NRA won't support ballot initiatives. They are trying to advance an agenda that is much broader than simply firearms rights. At times, it seems that firearms rights are merely a marketable side-effect of what they do.

    Did you notice that they refused to support the ballot initiative to write the 2nd Amendment into the CA constitution? It wouldn't have had to go thru the Democratic assembly, nor the Democratic senate, nor would it have had to have been signed by the Governator. It simply said that anyone who wasn't a mental patient or a felon had a right to keep and bear arms. Most voting Californians would have gotten behind it. The NRA smothered this proposal with neglect. That's because it didn't advance their OTHER (primary) object, political power.

    I think the NRA does a lot of good. But we can't afford to be fool enough to believe it works the way they want us to think it works. They were against the Parker case, in fact they almost torpedoed the Parker case (by filing their own case which in short order, went belly up). Then they were trying to discourage an appeal (of Parker) to the Supremes, for fear of a good ruling basically putting them out of business. The NRA helps gun rights, but that is not what they're really after, as shown time and again. I belong to the NRA, but I use them the way they use me. It's a consensual "user" relationship, lol!
     
  13. jnojr

    jnojr Member

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    This would go nowhere.

    Just two years ago we tried to qualify a far more innocuous initiative... simply inserting an explicit RKBA into the state Constitution. Frankly, nobody was interested. Lots of people on various Internet forums were willing to sign, but nobody was willing to spend time collecting other signatures. At the gun shows I attended to collect signatures, I was able to get maybe one out of three people to sign. Most of the rest quickly walked past trying to ignore us, or "didn't want to be on any lists", or said "That'll never work" and kept walking. The NRA not only won't support you, they'll fight you.

    Seriously, your efforts would be best put towards loading a moving truck and looking for a new job in another state. California is a lost cause. We're going to get more Scoialism and control of our lives, not less. No gun laws are going to go away, and all of the ones that aren't on the books yet will keep being reintroduced until they do pass. Our Legislature is secure in their gerrymandered seats, and they do not have to even pretend to represent the will of the people.
     
  14. Wastemore

    Wastemore Member

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    ^^ That pretty much nails it.
     
  15. Guitargod1985

    Guitargod1985 Member

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  16. CountGlockula

    CountGlockula Member

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    OK. Let's give it a try...perseverance right? Never give up right?

    I'm in Souther Ca. I would like to get together with some other locals and brain storm. I'd recommend four chapters: NorCal, CentralCal, SoCal and San Diego.

    Let's get this going. What about getting Calguns involved and other CA based internet groups?

    There are no "lost causes", only when there's no society. This could be something big.
     
  17. AJAX22

    AJAX22 Member

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    I'd be down to help. you should run it by gene and bill over on calguns.

    They're prety hip to this stuff.
     
  18. Alphazulu6

    Alphazulu6 member

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    California is going in the same rut as Illinois went.... seems to be a trend.
     
  19. brighamr

    brighamr Member

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    Go ahead and run it by Calguns. You'll basically get a few hundred people replying why you shouldn't do it. "Wait until Parker is finalized" "Remember when we tried for 2A?", etc,etc. We don't have a chance... :banghead:

    If you really want to do this, find out the exact amount of signatures needed and when they would need to be submitted. Create a sign-up sheet and post it here. I'll print it out and guarentee you 7 different stores in Middle-NorCal that will post it. In addition, I'll give the sign-up sheets to three different ranges in my area and I'll try to get the local media involved.

    I wish i could do more but I'm leaving the "bowls of the earth" PRK in August and don't plan on returning.

    Good luck, keep us posted.
     
  20. joe4702

    joe4702 Member

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    I try to be optomistic and I think we've done a pretty good job these past few years holding the line against new gun control laws, but I also think jnojr's outlook is probably the most realistic.
     
  21. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    The number of signatures - 433,971 - and the link to the rules is up in post #6.
    Not that I blame you for a nanosecond here, but each reasonable person who leaves reduces the already slim chances of reform by just a tiny fraction.
     
  22. brighamr

    brighamr Member

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    Librarian,

    I agree and it is sad. I have more than gun-related reasons for leaving CA, but then again all 9 of my brothers already left and they were all pro 2A... the number of pro-gun people in CA is diminishing.

    My main point was that most people in CA have a "can't do" attitude due to past experiences. The people who actually want to make a change need to start it, forget the nay-sayers and hope it gains momentum. I encourage this.
     
  23. Elza

    Elza Member

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    Sad to hear these things. Back in the early’80’s there was a proposition (I can’t remember the number it’s been too many years) to ban handguns in the state. I was one of the troops pounding on doors and handing out literature. (I had the misfortune to live in the Bay area for 8 years.) It went down in flames. It was either a two or three to one vote against the ban. We didn’t hear anything out of the anti’s for years after that.

    I didn’t like it when I lived there. I CERTAINLY wouldn’t like it now.
     
  24. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Member

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    The line was smashed sometime back in 1999/2000 when SB-23 passed. We're not holding the line anymore. We're fighting fighting a rear guard action in an attempt to keep ourselves from being completely annihilated.
     
  25. glockman19

    glockman19 Member

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    With a coordinated effort of all CA gun owners I believe we could do it. Petitions at all FFL's, All ranges, All LEO's, most who favor CCW, and All Military personel would get us twice the number we need.
     
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