A close up shooting - warning bad language, how many is enough

Status
Not open for further replies.
One can compare hitting vital organs to drilling for oil in a fast-moving area.

Having dispatched hundreds of things over the years hitting vital organs doesn’t mean that’s the end of the story, short term, some cases I have seen hundreds of yards of movement after imparting a mortal wound, anymore than an instantly disabling spine shot is mortal even with an hour or more passing. That’s the argument for pelvic shots, taking out the running gear to reduce mobility, even if it’s not the best odds at being mortal.

At that point, the officer was already retreating backwards faster than the advance, so he could have turned and run hoping to put even more distance between them. I imagine he was not trained to do that either.

Looks like the officer was using the “what can you put into a bucket that makes it lighter.” method, until he stopped. That likely being taught and learned vs just something he came up with at that moment.
 
Last edited:
It was not, one would have to stretch out to say his actions/outcome were by chance though.

If it all comes down to chance, it would be pointless to develop and utilize strategy’s and tactics.
 
We could realistically summarize as follows:

Crazed aggressor puts citizens at risk
Officer arrives on the scene, attempts to deescalate the situation
Aggressor attacks officer with wooden stick
Officer draws his firearm while trying to maintain separation from aggressor
Aggressor continues to advance on officer , he opens fire
Threat is neutralized

No citizens were harmed from the time officer arrived on scene

Condensed version:
Law enforcement officer performs his duty:
To Protect and Serve
 
Shot placement was a matter of chance and could only have been measured after the fact.

This is absolutely not true. The deputy was clearly aiming COM and scoring hits. Saying that shot placement was a matter of chance would lead one to believe he was shooting wild, which he wasn't.

All of his shots were NOT by chance, they were obviously aimed and controlled. A tribute to the Deputy and his training.

As mentioned earlier, most officers never even have to use their weapons. In this scenario you have a young man, who happened to stumble upon this scene on his way to his shift. From what I read in the paper he did not receive a call.

He placed himself between a highly agitated aggressor and civilians, took control and brought a dangerous situation to an end. We have to conclude the Deputy's adrenalin was at an all time high, he was nervous and concerned. When the first three rounds appear to have little affect, he unloaded. The Deputy never deviated from training. All shots went COM; I would wager those last 8 or 9 shot in somewhat of a panic.

I also do not believe that caliber was a factor in this scenario. A persons brain does not cease function instantly upon blood loss.

In most instances, shock, tissue rupture, and nerve damage contribute to the anoxic sudden deprivation of blood to the brain. There are many examples of people being shot in vital places, yet they continue to run, talk, and function for many minutes. Most times, it is shock that incapacitates a victim.

In this case, by some miracle, the shots did not interrupt the nerve connection between brain and muscle. His entire chest cavity could have been blown out and he would keep coming for a few seconds simply due to the hyped up condition of his brain.

I suppose one could argue that a .45, or .44 magnum, or .50 s and w would have shattered his spine and stopped him instantly. But then again maybe not. Like I said above, I believe this guy was already dead after the first few rounds. It was simply crazed will power keeping him going.
 
We can assume the cop was using at least 9mm.
Incident is an example of why I say, nowhere would I rather defend myself with a 380/38 than a Glock 19/23/32 and I carry accordingly.
 
In the heat of the moment the deputy (an 18 year veteran BTW) consistently made COM hits over about a 5 second span. That was his judgment and/or reflex in the moment.

And it worked. In that same 5 second span Mr. Costlow took 3 steps and fell.

The original link from thetruthaboutguns lauded the deputy for "getting off the X". Some comments here suggest he did not, and that he should have moved obliquely. Maybe so. I for one am not sure where he would have gone on the oblique, particularly if he was thinking about where missed shots might go. There were woods directly behind the attacker but streets and cars and some onlookers to the right and left in the background.

The deputy's name is now out as well.

https://patch.com/maryland/gaithersburg/police-identify-sheriffs-deputy-who-fatally-shot-driver
 
his [(shot placement was a matter of chance)] is absolutely not true. The deputy was clearly aiming COM and scoring hits. Saying that shot placement was a matter of chance would lead one to believe he was shooting wild, which he wasn't.

All of his shots were NOT by chance, they were obviously aimed and controlled. A tribute to the Deputy and his training.
You mossed the point completely.

Whether or not a CoM shot happens to strike a critical internal body part is to a large extent a matter of chance. It will depend upon the position of the attacker, and the point and angle of entry,

As a poster said, one could put shots through each lung and have little immediate effect.

In this case, by some miracle, the shots did not interrupt the nerve connection between brain and muscle.
Yes, and that "miracle" was a matter of chance.

Incident is an example of why I say, nowhere would I rather defend myself with a 380/38 than a Glock 19/23/32 and I carry accordingly.
You missed me with that/
 
ou mossed the point completely.

Whether or not a CoM shot happens to strike a critical internal body part is to a large extent a matter of chance. It will depend upon the position of the attacker, and the point and angle of entry,

As a poster said, one could put shots through each lung and have little immediate effect.

Thanks for the clarification. We both AGREE!!.
 
That profile does not provide any obvious clues as to what set him off.
None that jump out at me , anyway.
 
You mossed the point completely.

Whether or not a CoM shot happens to strike a critical internal body part is to a large extent a matter of chance. It will depend upon the position of the attacker, and the point and angle of entry,

As a poster said, one could put shots through each lung and have little immediate effect.

I don’t think looking at it like say something that is purely “chance” like flip a coin, is the right way to approach creating a strategy or tactic. If one method has no greater chance of a positive outcome than any other, it would be pointless to be prepared or have any training at all.

There is no doubt there is a chance a bullet can strike or pass through a body and not cause permanent injury, with more impacts into said body, those odds continue to go down.

I guess that’s back to your oil thought, more than one dry hole has been drilled poke enough holes in the earth and you’ll get it eventually.
 
Last edited:
A pocket 380 or 38 snub would have been out of ammo (7 rounds / 5 rounds) and a single threat not yet incapacitated.

My Detective special holds 6 rounds of .38. And I firmly believe my .38 would have done the job just fine. And in my hands a .380 would be just as effective.

Sounds to me like you are trying to revive the old "stopping power" argument. Seriously, 12 rounds of 9mm and the dead guy keeps on walking? Like a chicken with its head cut off. All the deputy had to do after the first three rounds was side step until he fell.

A .22 to the head would have stopped the guy, We could make the argument that it took the "pathetic" 9mm 12 rounds to stop Costlow. What if there were TWO guys???? You would need a machine gun or a grenade launcher.

It just seems to me that for personal defense 6 rounds of .38 are fine for the vast majority of any scenario I might encounter.
 
My Detective special holds 6 rounds of .38. And I firmly believe my .38 would have done the job just fine. And in my hands a .380 would be just as effective
Really? Why?

A .22 to the head would have stopped the guy,
Where in the head?

It just seems to me that for personal defense 6 rounds of .38 are fine for the vast majority of any scenario I might encounter.
Some people prudently consider outcomes beyond the "vast majority".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top