A few more ABLP questions

[DonOK]

I've narrowed my search down to a LM or an ABLP. I've read thru the in depth threads here on the ABL press and have some questions. I have other Lee presses and have been very satisfied with them. My attraction to this press is the solid tool head vs the turret. I'm more concerned about consistent COAL than I am quick caliber changes. I am currently sizing/priming in another step, so I want this press to load powder, seat bullet and run FCD. I may put a powder cop of some brand in the extra hole. My objective is to load pistol and any rifle case that is short enough and will use powders that meter well (non stick powder). Here are my specific questions.
1) Will this press minimize COAL as well as other progressive presses?
2) Are the breech lock bushing durable and do they "return to zero" consistently?
3) The offset ram to shellplate concerns me a little. With powder charge in station 1 and seating and crimping in 3 and 4, will there be significant flex in the shellplate?
4) Other than an extra station is there any reason to buy the Loadmaster instead?

 

[kmw1954]

I do not have and never have used a LoadMaster press. I do have a Lee 3 hole turret press, a Lee 4 hole Value turret press a Lee Pro1000 progressive press, an RCBS JR3 and a Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro. The 4 hole is a recent acquisition.

Between these presses I load 380, 9mm 38/357, 45acp and 223Rem.... With all of these presses I run the full process other than the single stage press. Which is used to deprime, pull bullets, size 223 and trim 223. All my pistol brass is done start to finish on one of the Lee Presses. Including priming. I get no more or less length deviation on any of these presses than any other.

Remember, if you are seating off the ogive and it varies the slightest bit it will change the seating depth. I have seen and measured factory match ammo that has varied by as much as .005"... I am loading 223 62gr Hornady FMJBT which is nothing special and I am able to hold .003" on a Lee Turret press using everyday Lee dies..

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Your not going to gain anything by buying the load master over the ABLP. On the Load Master the one station is taking by priming because it's done on the up stroke, not combined with a down stroke like the other progressive press makers do.

So if you prime on it you can still only run as a 4 station press. Other than that I can't say what they are like nowadays.
I have the ABLP and I use it for all my .357 Mag loading.

It is a decent press and I really like it but I don't prime on it so I won't say anything about that.
I prime the .357mags with a Lee Auto Prime ll on my Rock chucker before it goes to the ABLP.

It makes excellent ammo but I don't know if I would say it is as consistent as my LNL-AP in the OAL department. The original linkage on my was pretty loose so I put my Pro 1000 handle assy on it, (original ball handle). That helped a lot but I lost some leverage over the length of the original handle.

For .357 Mag cases, loosing that leverage doesn't matter much.
For resizing .223 it may make a difference.

 

[DonOK]

Well I was hoping you two would chime in. It seems you both picked up this press early on and have posted a lot about it. I started with the LCT and until lately that's been my only press. I used to load "start to finish" in one turn four pulls, but now have began to deprime, size, wet tumble, and prime in batches. I'm looking to take sized/primed brass and finish in one round without four pulls/round on the LCT. The only reason I might want 5 stations in to add in a bullet feeder. Powder, powder check, bullet feeder, seater, FCD. May decide its not needed but it looks nice.

 

[kmw1954]

This is only my personal opinion but if I were to size and prime in a separate operation off the press I would be finishing on the very simple Pro1000 press... Powder measure in station 1, seating in station 2 and crimping in station 3.. The Lee case feeder works pretty well but the Lee bullet feeder is very problematic.

I have actually set up a run an ABLP with the RCBS Tube bullet feeder in station 3 and seated and crimped in station 4. If I were to continue this practice I would swap the RCBS for a Mr. Bullet Mini feeder and use the tubes.

The biggest drawback I see to the ABLP is all the plastic used in the Shell plate carrier. They should have left it as-is on the Pro1000 and just added the 4th position.

 

[mrcabinet]

I ran a LCT for years and got quite proficient with it - especially with the reverse rod and case ejector. About three years ago I decided to upgrade to the LM. When it ran right it was great! But that was the minority of the time. I never liked the lack of any tactile feel when seating the primer and even had a primer light up on three different occasions. After trying every tip and trick and fighting the LM for two years, I was fortunate enough to sell it for what I had in to it. Bought an ABLP and haven't looked back.

I load .380, 9mm, .38, .357, .44 mag, .45 and .223 on it, running from size/deprime through FCD. When I get a rhythm going I can load 300 - 350 rounds in an hour - more than adequate for my needs. I also like how if something does get out of sync, it's very easy to correct and get back to processing rounds. I will say that the Lee bullet feeder has never worked for me, so I gave up on it and place each bullet by hand.

A caliber change takes about twice as long as the LCT and cost twice as much per caliber. At least they do if you're like me and have bushings/dies/rings for each caliber set up, ready and waiting. The lock rings (the ones with the clamp screw) hold true and don't move. I have experienced zero plate flex and oal is plenty consistent. I still have the LCT and use it for small runs.

The ABLP isn't blue, but it works just fine for me.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

1) Will this press minimize COAL as well as other progressive presses?
2) Are the breech lock bushing durable and do they "return to zero" consistently?
3) The offset ram to shellplate concerns me a little. With powder charge in station 1 and seating and crimping in 3 and 4, will there be significant flex in the shellplate?
4) Other than an extra station is there any reason to buy the Loadmaster instead?

Just occurred to me, I didn't answer any of your questions. Shame on me!

1. It will hold about .002-.003 under ideal conditions like with new brass. With mixed, multiple fired brass of different hardness's, it will stay within .005" like most other presses will. It's obviously not as solid as a Hornady or Dillon and that hurts it some.

2. The steel ones seem good to me so far, I have to be more diligent with them than I do with my LNL bushings due to the fine threads. I carefully rattle them in so I don't cross thread them and ding them up. My bushing are the steel ones, I don't know how the multi colored aluminum ones hold up. I only buy the steel ones.

3. The offset of the ram put the hardest pressure (resizing) over the ram so it has more single stage precision and the shell plate is less affected by deflection for seating. I think it is a good system for such a light press. The big presses are beefy enough that plate deflection is not such a problem.
It's there, but it's minor. The PRO1000 and the ABLP make very consistent ammo with this system and are usually close to what the LNL-AP and Dillon will make, if not as good.
As with all progressive presses, it depends on how you run your press as to the precision you get.

4. As I said earlier, you really can't use the Load Master as a "true" 5 station press because of how it primes on the up stroke. I've never used one because of all the horror stories I've been told about them.

 

[DonOK]

Thanks to all. So at least a couple of you use the steel bushings with the addition of a lock ring. Noted. I assumed there was only the aluminum (colored) option available.

Does the 1000 have a offset ram? Is the 1000 ram the same size as the ABL?

 

[kmw1954]

Does the 1000 have a offset ram? Is the 1000 ram the same size as the ABL?

Yes they are the same parts. Base, ram, The tool head and shell plate carriers are completely different.

 

[WeekendReloader]

I've narrowed my search down to a LM or an ABLP. I've read thru the in depth threads here on the ABL press and have some questions. I have other Lee presses and have been very satisfied with them. My attraction to this press is the solid tool head vs the turret. I'm more concerned about consistent COAL than I am quick caliber changes. I am currently sizing/priming in another step, so I want this press to load powder, seat bullet and run FCD. I may put a powder cop of some brand in the extra hole. My objective is to load pistol and any rifle case that is short enough and will use powders that meter well (non stick powder). Here are my specific questions.
1) Will this press minimize COAL as well as other progressive presses?
2) Are the breech lock bushing durable and do they "return to zero" consistently?
3) The offset ram to shellplate concerns me a little. With powder charge in station 1 and seating and crimping in 3 and 4, will there be significant flex in the shellplate?
4) Other than an extra station is there any reason to buy the Loadmaster instead?

I have and use the ABLP

1) I find that the COAL varies much more than on my LEE single stage press. This is especially true with flat nosed bullets and the LEE seating die (with generic LEE seating stem). I think it is more consistent with standard round nose bullets. This is probably more the fault of the seating die stem not fitting the bullet properly than a fault with the press. I have noticed a very slight variation when all stations are full with brass and when I'm running out the last few rounds and the sizing and priming stations are empty.

2) Breach lock bushings are awesome. They work great.

3)I don't see any flex. See answer #1 above. Slight variation when stations 1&2 are empty vs full.

4) I don't own a loadmaster. I use the ABLP in it's basic configuration without any add-ons. If you want to fully automate everything, the LoadMaster may be less of a Rube Goldberg clap trap than the ABLP. I am happy with my ABLP and do not plan to add any of the automation attachments. The plastic parts of the ABLP are fine, none of them have any stress applied to them during operation. When used properly, I see the ABLP having a long, happy service life on my bench.

Other) Some of the shellplates accommodate more than one caliber and can cause running issues. Example: I run 9mm. Then 9mm cases have a little bit of looseness when in the slots. Sometimes the cases can be slightly off center and jam on hte dies, or cause the primer to be tough to seat. I added a small piece of electrical tape in each slot of the shellplate to take up this slop. Now the press runs smooth and no more catching the dies and primers seat great.

 

[DonOK]

WeekendReloader do you use the steel bushings mentioned above or the aluminum?

Also, I read somewhere about using 6s shell plate for 9mm. It didn't explain but I expect it requires some modification. Must address the problem that you stated.

 

[mrcabinet]

I didn't even know there were steel bushings available, lol. The aluminum have worked just fine for me. I use a 4 color set for each set of dies, and use the same color for the individual dies, i,e., gold for deprime/sizing, silver for powder through, etc.

The 6s mod. is only for the LM, and it does help. The only combo plate I have is the #4, which is for .223 and .380. The first #4 I had was out of spec., so .223 would pop out and get stuck in the sizing die. Lee sent me a new one and it has worked fine.

 

[WeekendReloader]

WeekendReloader do you use the steel bushings mentioned above or the aluminum?

Also, I read somewhere about using 6s shell plate for 9mm. It didn't explain but I expect it requires some modification. Must address the problem that you stated.

I have some of the older steel bushings on my 9mm dies that are installed in the ABLP. I also have some of the new aluminum multi-color bushings on other dies. Both work the same as far as I can tell.

I use the shell #19 plate that LEE calls out for 9mm. It worked OK on it's own. The little pieces of electrical tape was a big improvement and now it is close to flawless.

 

[DonOK]

That's some good ole southern engineering. I think that is some of the draw to owning and operating Lee equipment. I have a pop sickle stick under the indexing rod on my LCT. It really quietens down the clank of that rod. The looks bothered me a little at first but I got over it.

 

[DonOK]

I've got mine on the way with several shellplates and extra bushings for my popular calibers. This kit comes with the autodrum. I already have one and have given up on it due to leaking ball powder. I prefer the autodisk measure. I see that when the autodisk is used on other Lee progressives that it uses a chain to reset the disk. My autodisk has a spring reset. Why the different styles and will the spring reset function properly on the ABL?

 

[kmw1954]

The spring return will work just fine. I have 3 Auto Disk measures and use them on everything. Lee has to use the spring on the turret presses because there is no way to attach a chain and still have the turret rotate.

I have been using my Auto Drum with such fine ball powders as AA#2, AA#5, Ramshot Silhouette, Ramshot TAC and Hodgdon BL-C2 and in all seriousness I spill more powder than I ever leak. Is yours an original issue model with the very shinny surface on the drum or a dull surface that looks as if it has been turned in a lathe?

 

[DonOK]

My drum had a small shinny spot and the rest was dull with ridges in it. It is over one year old and has the red hopper.

I just got it out and used 500 grit and went to work on it. I smoothed it down so that I could barely feel ridges with my thumbnail. I put graphite on it and tested with Shooters World Blackout. I don't think it leaked a bit. I am very pleased and hope this fixed it. It wasn't quite as accurate as I thought. It varied .3 grains and .1 on two 10 throw tests. The .1 is perfectly fine, .3 is a little to much. I did have the insert in. I backed off to a heavier than desired charge, then tightened the adjustment screw in so that it would take out any space between the screw and the insert. I think that helped.

 

[kmw1954]

DonOK, Right now I am loading some 223 with BL-C2 and it is holding just below my target weight of 23.7gr... May be .1 to .05gr light but that is fine as I am trickle charging the balance. Metering much nicer than the extruded Varget.

 

[DonOK]

I really have no expectation of it working with any stick powder. I'm working up a load with TAC for that very reason. Looks like 24.0 with 55 jacketed soft point will be close. With 24.5 velocity went down. 223 of course.
Titan has already shipped my press. I did have to go 44 mag package. I don't have one yet, but hey now I have another reason. Shell plates coming from Midsouth so may be a while yet.

 

[kmw1954]

You'll do just fine. It's really not much different tan the Lee Turret press actually. Only in this case the shell plate turns instead of the turret.

Not sure what gun you will be shooting but I have been loading a ton of 223 as of late doing load workups. My Savage bolt gun likes a 62gr bullet with 23.6gr of TAC.

 

[NMexJim]

Well I was hoping you two would chime in. It seems you both picked up this press early on and have posted a lot about it. I started with the LCT and until lately that's been my only press. I used to load "start to finish" in one turn four pulls, but now have began to deprime, size, wet tumble, and prime in batches. I'm looking to take sized/primed brass and finish in one round without four pulls/round on the LCT. The only reason I might want 5 stations in to add in a bullet feeder. Powder, powder check, bullet feeder, seater, FCD. May decide its not needed but it looks nice.

I have a couple 5-hole and have been through all kinds of contortions - case feeds, bullet feeds, powder through expanders, etc. If you’re going to have just one press, I’d do just what you’re talking about - batch process. In fact, that’s all I do now.

An extremely fine woodworker I know has always said there was no such thing as “excess”. I’ve come to realize he was right.

 

[DonOK]

My ABL press kit arrived and if first impressions are worth anything this is a very good addition. It arrived on the third day from placing order with Titan. As always with Lee it was very well packaged. I am impressed with how heavy it is and the indexing is smoother than I expected. I had to order a caliber that I don't have so I'm waiting on shellplates from another vendor. They are scheduled for delivery tomorrow.

As stated the indexing is smooth and doesn't seem "jerky". I did quickly notice however, that it will get out of time very easily. This press likes full strokes and once out of time it will not correct itself. On the down stroke the shell plate will hit the alignment pin and an anxious operator with a heavy hand could cause significant damage. I don't see this as an issue but I do think it happens way to easily. It doesn't occur with complete, full, deliberate strokes.

Very happy thus far. Thanks to all for the encouragement to go ABL vs LM.

 

[kmw1954]

Once you start using it and acquire a feel with it you will be able to tell where it starts to index and stop just before that to be able to reverse stroke and re-raise the ram. I can do this with all three of my auto indexing Lee presses. It allows me to check weigh powder charges, primers or overall length in the event I need to make an adjustment.

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[DonOK]

I got up and running today. Loading 223 as that is what I've been working on lately. Set up is station 1 autodrum 2 flashlight to check powder 3 seating die 4 FCD. First issue was the case feeder dropping multiple cases on occasion. I am using the riser and the small hole set up. It was set about a coin's clearance above the case mouth when viewed from the side. However, there is a "cut out" in the feeder where the cases drop that faces the shell holder. This allows the neck of the case to pass through. This allowed lowering the case feeder maybe 3/16" or so. Problem solved. I sure didn't see this little bit of very important info in the instructions. Maybe its there.

I have another issue that needs a fix though. Seating depth just isn't consistent. I'm getting as much as .010" variation. Most are within .005 but get some outliers. I've tested combinations of cases at different location to try to isolate the culprit. For example seating and powder only, or seating and FCD only. Didn't reveal anything to me. I'm concentrating on even strokes and consistent pressure at the top of the stroke. BTW I checked BTO and the differences were in line with COAL. If the seater touches the shell plate firmly each stroke how can there be this much deviation in COAL? What's going on?

 

[kmw1954]

Now have to ask, What bullet, what dies? Do the bullets fit well in the seating steam?

I am loading 5 different bullets on a Lee turret press with everyday factory Lee dies and I do not see that much deviation. Have to add I have not loaded any form of bottleneck case on my ABLP 4000, nor have I run it w/o a sizing die in station 1.