a few more mosin questions...

[kis2]

So lets say i got your standard war issue 91/30 with an excellent bore condition. How far out can those things reach and still be accurate? Even my sks is good for one hundred yards, so im looking for more than that. And how would you know a sniper grade 91/30 from a non? And what should i pay for one? i am looking for the bolt action sniper feel in this project so im steering away from any carbine variants...

Great posts on my last topic guys, tons of help so far.
Thanks again
kis2

 

[longrifleman]

How far out can those things reach and still be accurate

Not a simple question. How accurate is "accurate"? Excellent bore with ammo that your particular rifle likes can be very accurate for a battle rifle, but anything better than 2-3 MOA will be unusual. We hear stories of better happening sometimes,(1 MOA) but they are rare.

As to how far, generally as far as your eyes can see the target. With irons the wide front post limits my accuracy, but your eyes are probably better than mine. With a scope, it will depend on the quality of the scope also.

And how would you know a sniper grade 91/30 from a non?

Ex-snipers will have screw holes on the left side of the reciever, but may have them plugged/welded. There should also be a turned down bolt, but there are rumours of a lot of fakes floating around. Some rumours of the Russkies "rearsenaling" some to take advantage of the increased price, but I have no evidence myself. Maybe someone else can help us both out there.

Price is very difficult to determine. An authentic sniper will cost as much as a pretty decent modern rifle and will not be any more accurate. Original russian scopes are functional but modern glass is much better. Only you can know what you really want. I think they are a neat historical piece, but you can get more for your money in a modern rifle if you want accurate.

 

[fatelk]

I just bought a refurbished wartime (1944) 91/30 at Big-5 Sporting Goods for $75. Bore condition is OK; a lot of wear but not much pitting. I've been to the range a couple times now and the best I've been able to shoot with it for accuracy has been 2.5MOA groups (minute-of-angle- about 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200 yards, etc.) with the occasional flyer. I haven't tried using shims to bed the barrel yet to see if I can eliminate the flyers, but that might work.

The average Mosin Nagant will probably do 3MOA or better with the right ammo. I personally wouldn't put a scope on a 3MOA rifle, unless you have eye problems. With some practice 3MOA is not overly difficult with open sights (from a rest, of course).

As far as range, 7.62x54R is pretty comparable to the 30-06, which has the ballistics to go over 1000 yards. So theoretically, if you got a good Mosin Nagant that could shoot 2MOA, you could hit a 20 inch circle at 1000 yards (definitely scope time! I doubt you could see a 20 inch circle at that distance). I say theoretically because there are so many variables at the longer ranges. You have to be a very good shot to think about shooting that far.

I remember reading a book about Carlos Hathcock, the top sniper during the Vietnam war. The enemy snipers used Mosin Nagant sniper rifles and were frighteningly lethal at impressive distances. I'm sure they were able to hand pick the most accurate rifle, and undoubtedly one that has been accurized could be very accurate.

I know there are several here that are more knowledgeable than I am about MNs. This is just my two cents worth.

Edit: sorry Longrifleman, I didn't see your post when I posted, was a little redundant.
Also- it turned out my 91/30 is a re-arsenaled ex-sniper, with plugged and welded screw holes. It doesn't seem to be much more accurate than average, but for $75 I did get a good deal!

 

[Vaarok]

I know of several people who, with practice and a good 91/30 rifle and after accuratizing their rifle, and then fixing the bayonet, have managed to reliably engage a foot-wide clanger target at six hunded meters.

I can pretty readily put rounds in a foot-wide target at four hundred with irons.

Surplusrifle.com forums has a lot of tips on how to make one shoot to its full potential. One of the most important things is to find the ammo the rifle likes. Some will shoot horribly until you find the right load, and then it's like a completely different (and far more accurate) rifle.

Or you could just get a Finnish mosin, which should be already accuratized. All you gotta do is find the right ammo and you're good to go.

 

[Niner]

As has been said, the Finns will more likely be better than a 91/30 as a shooter. For me it's because they have better sights and a better Finn made trigger break. But you can buy two good 91/30's for what one fair Finn M39 cost. Buy one refurb 91/30 and put a Darrell mount on it and a decent cheap scope and you will be not much over the cost of a good Finn just by itself.

Whatever you do, you will more than likely not make a choice that you will regret.

 

[pacodelahoya]

+1 Vaarok about the ammo. You will never shoot that mosin to it's potential with surplus. Wolf gold comes in 180 or 150 grain with reloadable brass. It's pricey(comparatively) at around $13.00 for 20. I take a box to the range to get a pretty target then just shoot silver tip the rest of the day cuz it's cheap.