A good hunting/target rifle

[Jbird45]

As of right now, I have 5 rifles. And they are at the extreme ends of the spectrum. I have a .22-250 and .264 Win mag that are high velocity, over bore, barrel burners and I have a .30-30 and .45-70 Gov't which are heavy, slow, rainbow trajectory freight trains made for short distance shooting. I also have a .22lr.

I had at one point a Savage .30-06 and hated it. I could never get it to group well no matter what I fed it. I tried factory ammo, reloads, and 3 different scopes. I got rid of it and feel bad for whoever the poor soul is who bought it after I did. I should have melted it down into scrap metal. I am not saying the .30-06 is a bad cartridge, but I really don't want another one.

I am tired of going to the range and worrying about barrel wear and keeping the barrel cool between shots for the high velocity rifles, let alone the .264 is $3 a shot. The 45-70 and .30-30 aren't bad on the 100 yard range but the range I go to has a 567 yard target that is fun, and those rifles aren't made for that. Yes, I realize in 1873 the .45-70 was a long range cartridge but my lever action doesn't have a scope and isn't getting one so I would look like a fool trying to hit with a big bore and iron sights. I realize I have 2 rifles designed for long range but every round I send downrange makes me think of barrel wear and I don't want to re-barrel my rifles.

I would like a rifle in the middle of the road. Something that isn't an ultra long range cartridge, but isn't a brush gun either. It would have to be economical to shoot, relatively flat shooting, and capable of 500-600 yard shots. I need something I can shoot relatively often and not worry about excessive barrel wear. I would like to be able to take deer and antelope sized game at 100-200 yards.

Right now, i am considering a Ruger American predator in 6.5 Creedmoor. I like the heavier barrel and have heard the Creedmoor is a relatively balanced round. I was thinking maybe a .308 or a .270 may not be bad choices either.

I just want a rifle I can shoot relatively often and not have to worry about. I realize all barrels wear, but the 2 screamers I have are notorious for it. I don't need a 1000 yard tack driver either. I just need a relatively flat shooting, economical, long lasting, all purpose rifle capable of the occasional 500 yard shots. Is that too much to ask for?

I know you can't get any rifle barrel hot and expect it to not wear, but I don't want something so high velocity and overbore. I will still keep my new rifle cool, but I am tired of worrying about throat erosion and heat cracking.

And for the guy that is going to tell me that barrels are a wear item and to screw a new one on when it wears out, I would agree with you, but the .264 was my grandfather's and I don't want to be the idiot that destroys a classic rifle. The .22-250 was a more recent purchase, and is intended for the occasional coyote hunt, but I still don't want to wear it out as that is a vintage rifle as well.

I am welcome to all suggestions that don't require me to modify my current rifles.

 

[LoonWulf]

For what you want id suggest a RAP in .308

Plenty of performance for what your asking and excellent barrel life.

The 6.5cm and .270 would also be good choices, and were it MY decision, id go 6.5cm. But both the 6.5 and .270 will have a markedly shorter barrel life than a .308.
Were still talking 2000+rnds, especially if your not asking ittybitty group level of accuracy, with either of them tho.
While i can see not wanting to change an old rifle, an Americans 200 bucks and 15mins of work away from a fresh tube (assuming you order it in advance).

 

[Jbird45]

For what you want id suggest a RAP in .308

Plenty of performance for what your asking and excellent barrel life.

The 6.5cm and .270 would also be good choices, and were it MY decision, id go 6.5cm. But both the 6.5 and .270 will have a markedly shorter barrel life than a .308.
Were still talking 2000+rnds, especially if your not asking ittybitty group level of accuracy, with either of them tho.
While i can see not wanting to change an old rifle, an Americans 200 bucks and 15mins of work away from a fresh tube (assuming you order it in advance).

I have no objection to screwing a new barrel on a new rifle I have bought and intend to use, but as you said I don't want to touch my vintage rifles.

Does the larger bullet of the .308 decrease velocity which extends barrel life? Or is it just less overbore than the other 2 cartridges.

I guess the only advantage of the 6.5 Creedmoor I see over the .308 is my .264 takes the same bullets as the 6.5, but that is only a minor advantage. Barrel life is my main concern. I assume there is a much wider range of .30 call bullets vs the 6.5 though too

 

[LoonWulf]

Less overbore, lower pressure as standard.

The .308s a great round, and probably has the widest array of components of any round besides the 223/556 perhaps.
The bore dia is capable of handling a much wider range of bullets, or well it has a much wider range available to it than the .264.
What the .264 bore does better is toss a lighter bullet, with a higher BC, at about the same speed or slightly faster from a similar cartridge.

If you dont need that advantage, and WANT stupid long bore life, its hard ro beat the .308

 

[hossfly]

It's just that whole smaller hole, same amount of hot gasses thing. Just the way it works. 25-06 < 270 < 3006 < 35 Whelen in terms of barrel life. I'm kinda kicking similar decisions you are making around right now and I too am kinda thinking about barrel life.

 

[Jbird45]

It's just that whole smaller hole, same amount of hot gasses thing. Just the way it works. 25-06 < 270 < 3006 < 35 Whelen in terms of barrel life. I'm kinda kicking similar decisions you are making around right now and I too am kinda thinking about barrel life.

I just get sick of going to the range with my shooting buddies and shooting for 30 minutes and spending the next 2 hours looking through glass calling their shots because I don't want to burn up my barrels.

In the end I want to shoot more, and need a rifle that's up to the challenge. It sounds like the .308 is the perfect choice so far.

 

[Nature Boy]

If you want something stupid accurate, easy to load for and fun to shoot, how about a 6mm BR?

 

[hossfly]

Yeah BR would be a fun gun. I think he's wanting something to hunt with too. I don't know how big the game he might want to pursue but that one might be marginal for bigger critters.

 

[Jbird45]

Yeah BR would be a fun gun. I think he's wanting something to hunt with too. I don't know how big the game he might want to pursue but that one might be marginal for bigger critters.

It would mostly be for deer and antelope sized game. Not sure if the 6mm is capable of whitetails at 100-200 yards. I know whitetails aren't super hard to kill though, and some guys, like my uncle, go way overboard. He uses a .300 RUM for shots out to 70 yards.

I am mostly going to use it as a target rifle, but I plan on shooting it a lot so I am assuming I am going to get very familiar with it, so it would be nice to be able to take it hunting as well because I will know the gun and how to shoot it from the amount of practice I plan to use it for. That is why barrel life and the price and availability of ammo are important to me.

I plan to shoot the thing. A lot.

 

[hossfly]

Well from a cartridge point of view you can't go wrong with 308. For the record your bad experience with the 06 was just an anomaly. Piles of people (including myself) have owned tackdrivers in that round. Given you have a notion to be very practical with the next rifle, I would think 308 would best fit your criteria. If you reload, it will be a little more economical than something like a 270 or an 06. And even a little more economical than a 6.5 if you factor in brass price and barrel life expectancy.

Having said that, it takes a lot of shooting to get to the 2500 or so rounds it takes for some accuracy deterioration in a 6.5. And unlike your family guns, their probably want be a nostalgic connection to it.

 

[Olon]

I think a 308 fits the bill.

 

[MrCleanOK]

It would mostly be for deer and antelope sized game. Not sure if the 6mm is capable of whitetails at 100-200 yards. I know whitetails aren't super hard to kill though, and some guys, like my uncle, go way overboard. He uses a .300 RUM for shots out to 70 yards.

I am mostly going to use it as a target rifle, but I plan on shooting it a lot so I am assuming I am going to get very familiar with it, so it would be nice to be able to take it hunting as well because I will know the gun and how to shoot it from the amount of practice I plan to use it for. That is why barrel life and the price and availability of ammo are important to me.

I plan to shoot the thing. A lot.

The 6mm cartridges are plenty capable of killing deer and antelope at 200 yards. I don't think you'd go wrong with a .243 Winchester, 6.5 Creed, 7mm-08 or .308 Winchester. Since it sounds like you don't reload, I'd suggest limiting your search to calibers like these that will be easy to find on store shelves. The 6mm BR is a great cartridge, but not if you don't roll your own.

 

[.308 Norma]

the .264 is $3 a shot.

$3 a shot?!? It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that it's been so long since I've shot factory rifle ammo, I can't even fathom "$3 a shot."
That said, like LoonWulf, I too would recommend a 308 Winchester of some kind. However, I suspect that even a 308 Winchester is going to run you between $.75 and $1 a shot with factory ammo.
I can hardly fathom that either. My 308 Norma Magnum, loaded with the best (in my opinion) hunting bullets money can buy, and the best powder (also in my opinion) money can buy runs me less than $1 a shot even counting the wear and tear on the cases. And I only shoot a dozen or so hunting loads a year. Cut that $1 a shot by half or more for target practice loads.
So, as you have probably guessed by now, my advice is to get into handloading. You'll save enough money to afford more practice, and a new barrel once in a while.

 

[ericuda]

308 is the choice if not reloading. Ammo of all kinds and availability there. If reloading i would think of 6.5 Swede.

 

[Jbird45]

$3 a shot?!? It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that it's been so long since I've shot factory rifle ammo, I can't even fathom "$3 a shot."
That said, like LoonWulf, I too would recommend a 308 Winchester of some kind. However, I suspect that even a 308 Winchester is going to run you between $.75 and $1 a shot with factory ammo.
I can hardly fathom that either. My 308 Norma Magnum, loaded with the best (in my opinion) hunting bullets money can buy, and the best powder (also in my opinion) money can buy runs me less than $1 a shot even counting the wear and tear on the cases. And I only shoot a dozen or so hunting loads a year. Cut that $1 a shot by half or more for target practice loads.
So, as you have probably guessed by now, my advice is to get into handloading. You'll save enough money to afford more practice, and a new barrel once in a while.

I reload! I just don't reload for my .264. That rifle means a lot to me, and if I screwed it up with a bad reload I would never forgive myself. The nosler trophy grade for that gun are $60 for 20 rounds, and the Remington core lokt are $54. I obviously chose the nosler.

 

[.308 Norma]

I reload! I just don't reload for my .264. That rifle means a lot to me, and if I screwed it up with a bad reload I would never forgive myself. The nosler trophy grade for that gun are $60 for 20 rounds, and the Remington core lokt are $54. I obviously chose the nosler.

Okie Dokie.

 

[Robbins290]

I also agree with the 308. Great for those ranges. Can have cheap plinking ammo. Plenty of bullet types for all kinds of game in north america. My ruger american is very accurate and cheap. Throw some good glass on it and it will fit the bill. Burn the barrel up and i am sure it will be cheap to have ruger slap another one on then buying one and doing it your self.

 

[LoonWulf]

I also agree with the 308. Great for those ranges. Can have cheap plinking ammo. Plenty of bullet types for all kinds of game in north america. My ruger american is very accurate and cheap. Throw some good glass on it and it will fit the bill. Burn the barrel up and i am sure it will be cheap to have ruger slap another one on then buying one and doing it your self.

It probably would be moderately cheaper than doing the work yourself, or paying a local smith, but most of the extra cost will be in a better quality barrel. Tho again, with how accurate rugers barrels are now, you might be paying for a wash in thst department.

 

[jmr40]

The Ruger Predator is an excellent choice. I have them in 223, 6.5 CM and 308. All 3 shoot exceptionally well.

I can't think of a single reason to choose 308 over 6.5 CM. And I own 5 rifles in 308. You MIGHT be able to find cheap, inaccurate ammo costing less for a 308, but if you are buying decent ammo 6.5 is cheaper than 308. And today you'll find 6.5 ammo anywhere 308 is sold. It makes no sense having a 1/2 MOA rifle and shooting 2 MOA ammo in it.

I've seen guys shoot 4" groups at 600 yards from a Ruger Predator using this ammo

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020605499?pid=865833

As a hunting rifle the 308 LOOKS a little better on paper. But there is no animal I'd hunt with a 308 or 270 that I'd not also hunt with a 6.5 CM. Those are the 2 rounds that come closest in performance. A 270 shoots the same bullet weights about 150-200 fps faster at the muzzle, but by the time you get 200-300 yards downrange the more aerodynamic 6.5 bullets have caught up. A 140 gr 6.5 bullet, a 180 gr 308 bullet and a 150 gr 270 bullet will give almost identical penetration on game animals.

As a target round out to about 600-700 yards 308 and 6.5 CM are very comparable. Beyond that and it is no contest. And for a variety of reasons I'd bet that 8 out of 10 rifles chambered in 6.5 CM are going to be more accurate than 308. Especially with off the shelf rifles and ammo. The 6.5's recoil is closer to 243 than 308.

Yes, a 308 barrel will last longer. Depending on your accuracy requirements 5000-10,000 rounds. Expect about 3000-6000 rounds for a 6.5 CM But that's 150-300 boxes of factory loads. That's $4000-$7000 worth of ammo. If you can afford $7000 for ammo buying a new barrel is cheap. Heck with a $400 Ruger you'd be better off to just buy a new rifle after the barrel is gone.

 

[Robbins290]

Loon wulf. right now, there barrels are very accurate. I would think its a wash. Specially where he said 500 yards. They will be good at that range.

 

[hossfly]

jmr and I agree on the amount of shooting it will take to wear the barrel out on the smaller bores. All things in perspective.

 

[LoonWulf]

Loon wulf. right now, there barrels are very accurate. I would think its a wash. Specially where he said 500 yards. They will be good at that range.

Yep all of mine have been 3/4-1moa rifles, well besides my 7mm RAM, it was closer to a 1.25moa rifle, tho MOA groups wernt unusual.

 

[adcoch1]

In today's marketplace the ruger American predator or the Howa 1500 in 6.5cm or 308.

Both rifles shoot sub moa with a little setup and good optics. Match grade ammo is cheaper for these two than virtually anything except 223. And reloading can be easily done to produce match grade ammo with DECADES of info behind the 308. The 6.5 just may be enough cheaper in match grade ammo to afford a barrel slightly more often. It all comes down to ammo cost, barrels, and budget rifles consequently, are cheap by comparison.

All that said I'd probably go 308 if you don't mind the heavier recoil. You probably wouldn't notice it in one box of ammo, but run 200-300 rounds through it in one sitting and you may want the creedmoor.

 

[redneck2]

you want something stupid accurate, easy to load for and fun to shoot, how about a 6mm BR?

This would be my choice since you reload. You could shoot a lot and not have fatigue from recoil

My S-I -L has a Savage target model with a real heavy barrel. Would only be good for hunting from a fixed blind, but exceptionally accurate and zero recoil in his heavy rifle.

Long barrel life, and good to 1,000 yards with the right ammo

 

[Steve S.]

I am a .308 guy but any of the calibers you are considering will do as you desire. The 6mm’s are all the rage now and will continue to be for some time I think. The .308 and the .270 will also do as you desire but, they are “that old thing” - Ford or Chevy stuff again (yawn) - your best choice is the one that makes you happy.