GoWolfpack
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Malamute, I love to see a gun with some honest wear on it, and that one's just about covered up with it. That belongs right up there with the BBQ guns Cocked & Locked was showing earlier.
A Horseman's Holster
- Thread starter Vern Humphrey
- Start date
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Malamute, I love to see a gun with some honest wear on it, and that one's just about covered up with it. That belongs right up there with the BBQ guns Cocked & Locked was showing earlier.
This is a real horseman holster that protects the firearm from accidental discharges from brush and twigs as well as keeping most of the dirt, debries, and things that can cause failure to fire out.
It's also a cross draw a good type for horseback riding.
I am having trouble linking my other images from the Holster: Flap or no Flap? thread
It's also a cross draw a good type for horseback riding.
I am having trouble linking my other images from the Holster: Flap or no Flap? thread
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I agree a 'horse' holster should have a DEEP boot and a tight fit that even when open doesn't allow the gun to bounce out of the holster. Cross draw isn't a must, but since few of us are using a sabre anymore, it's my preferred style of carry.
The US military I think got the design right, though these two examples have been modernized for crossdraw:
an 1863 pattern by Trailrider Products made for a Vaquero (though it fits my 1860 Army very well and my 1851 Navy loosely.) It does a great job of completely covering the shiny grip frame and protecting the revolver from the elements.
and a 1917 by IMA reproductions. GREAT fit.
Another great design that's sort of a mix of these two is the 1885 pattern that fits a Schoefield or Colt: http://www.carricoleather.com/beltsandholsters.html
Trailrider does a great half-flap holster too: http://www.gunfighter.com/trailrider/tr_holster3.html
NONE of these is a 'quick draw' as such rigs favor retention WAY over speed of presentation.
The US military I think got the design right, though these two examples have been modernized for crossdraw:
an 1863 pattern by Trailrider Products made for a Vaquero (though it fits my 1860 Army very well and my 1851 Navy loosely.) It does a great job of completely covering the shiny grip frame and protecting the revolver from the elements.
and a 1917 by IMA reproductions. GREAT fit.
Another great design that's sort of a mix of these two is the 1885 pattern that fits a Schoefield or Colt: http://www.carricoleather.com/beltsandholsters.html
Trailrider does a great half-flap holster too: http://www.gunfighter.com/trailrider/tr_holster3.html
NONE of these is a 'quick draw' as such rigs favor retention WAY over speed of presentation.
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Vern Humphrey
Member
Can't see from the photo, but that looks a lot like a cavalry holster. They were indeed of that type, but worn butt-forward on the right side, allowing a draw with either hand.
The cavalry also had another smart accessory -- a cartridge box (actually, for much of the era a Civil War cap box.) This protected their ammunition better than belt loops, and was more accessible as well.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I've just about sworn off cartridge loops altogether. I'm gonna come up with a cartridge box based on post Civil War era originals in perhaps 10rd and 20rd versions.
Sergei Mosin
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A modern cartridge box would be neat. Maybe design it so that the rounds in it can be on speedstrips if desired?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That's a good idea!
Vern Humphrey
Member
I like that!
For single actions, I make a case of soft leather and put in a cut down Styrofoam filler from an empty cartridge box of the appropriate caliber.
RPRNY
Member
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9048611#post9048611
Flapped cross draw. Oklahoma Leather. Wants oil working into it but excellent value for money.
Flapped cross draw. Oklahoma Leather. Wants oil working into it but excellent value for money.
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I had a friend of mine make a full line of full flap holsters for my handguns. I've gotten away from carrying rifles on my day to day farm chores, they're just too much trouble. Problem was, my handguns were all really nice (haha, not the hipoints).
Problem solved, one will completely swallow the gun for serious working, nothing exposed. It is not a quick draw holster, but isn't a chore either. The others all leave the handle exposed from the holster part, but the flap fully covers them. GREAT for handgun hunting, or farm work. No worries about rain, sawdust, mud, dings/nicks. The other plus is I now have a gun at hand during almost all my farm work and can pop those varmints when they show themselves.
I do have one stainless .357 that isn't in perfect condition, so I don't really mind to carry it in an easy access holster.
The other real plus, is when I do buckle the flap down on them, it makes for a nice pistol case so they never have to leave their holsters.
I went for "full protection" of the guns with these rather than the ability to make a quick draw. I don't think I'll run into Badlands Bart out on the farm, so just having a firearm within reach at all times is good enough for me.
Problem solved, one will completely swallow the gun for serious working, nothing exposed. It is not a quick draw holster, but isn't a chore either. The others all leave the handle exposed from the holster part, but the flap fully covers them. GREAT for handgun hunting, or farm work. No worries about rain, sawdust, mud, dings/nicks. The other plus is I now have a gun at hand during almost all my farm work and can pop those varmints when they show themselves.
I do have one stainless .357 that isn't in perfect condition, so I don't really mind to carry it in an easy access holster.
The other real plus, is when I do buckle the flap down on them, it makes for a nice pistol case so they never have to leave their holsters.
I went for "full protection" of the guns with these rather than the ability to make a quick draw. I don't think I'll run into Badlands Bart out on the farm, so just having a firearm within reach at all times is good enough for me.
Why is that? I like cartridge loops quite a lot. Pulling two at a time and loading an SA or even a DA revolver is pretty quick and easy when used to them. When I carry a rifle belt, I keep the loads at the front where they're easy to reach, and I can see and pull small game loads easily.
I have a Civil War type cap/cartridge box, I like the looks of it, but it didn't seem very handy. I may have the guy make me a version with a block in it like was mentioned, to hold about 8 348's upright, the current one doesnt have enough flap to secure with rifle rims upright at the top of the pouch. Fishing around for them down in the pouch is a pain in the behind. I'd rather carry spare rounds in my pockets, or better yet, a cartridge belt.
I have a couple box type cartridge carriers, Hunter and others used to make them. A full 20 rd box of rifle loads can be carried. Its handy enough with a good box insert, but if the flap isnt secured, it seems like you could lose a lot of rounds hustling through the woods over rough country.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Because unless you use nickel plated brass, you can't leave cartridges in them without verdigris forming.
You can't see them.
Loading from them is rather slow.
You have to have a separate cartridge belt for several different sized cartridges. I don't even like using .45's in .44 loops because it stretches them out. If you have a lot of guns in a lot of different cartridges, that adds up pretty fast if you're buying them.
Mine don't fit any more.
I wasn't referring to a cap box, which is what I use for percussion caps or loose .22LR's. But rather a rectangular cartridge box with either two rows of five or ten. A cartridge box with a wood insert can hold cartridges indefinitely. It is in one place on your belt for more consistent and quicker reloads. You can actually see what's inside. You can also use one box for multiple cartridges without worrying about stretching out your loops. You only need one belt. I will probably sell them for less than half what a cartridge belt will cost as it will be FAR easier to make. At most, you would only need two or three for all pistol cartridges. Perhaps one for up to .357Mag, one for up to .45Colt and if you have .475 or .500, one in that size too. I'll use wool or felt inserts to keep them from rattling in the wood block.
Similar to this:
You can't see them.
Loading from them is rather slow.
You have to have a separate cartridge belt for several different sized cartridges. I don't even like using .45's in .44 loops because it stretches them out. If you have a lot of guns in a lot of different cartridges, that adds up pretty fast if you're buying them.
Mine don't fit any more.
I wasn't referring to a cap box, which is what I use for percussion caps or loose .22LR's. But rather a rectangular cartridge box with either two rows of five or ten. A cartridge box with a wood insert can hold cartridges indefinitely. It is in one place on your belt for more consistent and quicker reloads. You can actually see what's inside. You can also use one box for multiple cartridges without worrying about stretching out your loops. You only need one belt. I will probably sell them for less than half what a cartridge belt will cost as it will be FAR easier to make. At most, you would only need two or three for all pistol cartridges. Perhaps one for up to .357Mag, one for up to .45Colt and if you have .475 or .500, one in that size too. I'll use wool or felt inserts to keep them from rattling in the wood block.
Similar to this:
I leave mine loaded all the time. Yes, they get verdigris, but I clean them every few months or so with a rag ior paper towel and it isnt much of a problem. I use a smaller caliber plastic bore brush to gently clean the inside of the loops out, it helps keep them clean longer.
If its something I don't use much over the winter, I start the season by cleaning the rounds in a belt the first time I take it out. The type of tanning used for the leather seems to have some bearing on how much or how fast verdegris forms. I have some that dont crud up nearly as much as others. Every decade or so it seems like the loops need to be restitched to tighten them up. I like them to positively hold the rounds, but not hinder getting them out two at a time for revolver loading.
Slow is relative I guess. I find belts pretty quick for some uses, especially if the loops are in the front or handy to the right hand.
I dont mind having belts for each caliber or type. I attach the holster to the belt usually, so it's all together and the holster doesn't shift around. Can simply unfasten the buckle and only hold one end to take it off without the holster falling off, and hang it from a hook by the buckle. I dislike having to try to hold the holster in place to put a belt on or off, or worry about the holster falling off the belt when handling it.
I agree, different calibers dont work well in the same belt. I've found most loops loosen up fairly quickly. Working the next size rounds in seems to make them tighter and the loads dont fall out after a few weeks or months of use.
The box you showed is similar to the commercial ones I have for rifle loads. I put plastic cartridge box lowers in them to hold the rounds. They're the type I mentioned that I worry about losing rounds from if the flap wasn't secured and moving through rough stuff quickly.
If its something I don't use much over the winter, I start the season by cleaning the rounds in a belt the first time I take it out. The type of tanning used for the leather seems to have some bearing on how much or how fast verdegris forms. I have some that dont crud up nearly as much as others. Every decade or so it seems like the loops need to be restitched to tighten them up. I like them to positively hold the rounds, but not hinder getting them out two at a time for revolver loading.
Slow is relative I guess. I find belts pretty quick for some uses, especially if the loops are in the front or handy to the right hand.
I dont mind having belts for each caliber or type. I attach the holster to the belt usually, so it's all together and the holster doesn't shift around. Can simply unfasten the buckle and only hold one end to take it off without the holster falling off, and hang it from a hook by the buckle. I dislike having to try to hold the holster in place to put a belt on or off, or worry about the holster falling off the belt when handling it.
I agree, different calibers dont work well in the same belt. I've found most loops loosen up fairly quickly. Working the next size rounds in seems to make them tighter and the loads dont fall out after a few weeks or months of use.
The box you showed is similar to the commercial ones I have for rifle loads. I put plastic cartridge box lowers in them to hold the rounds. They're the type I mentioned that I worry about losing rounds from if the flap wasn't secured and moving through rough stuff quickly.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I carried my Colt M357 in a full-flap holster of my own design my first tour in Viet Nam, and carried 50 rounds of .357 in a GI first aid pouch (old style). It was a good combination -- even in the jungle, the gun was protected, and reloading was simple.
royal barnes
Member
If you want a cartridge belt that will not cause verdigris order one from Rick Bachman at Old West Reproductions. He guarantees no green cartridges. I don't know how he treats his leather but there is no green.
joeoim
Member
What works for one person, may not work as well for the other. We all have different styles and circumstances.
I started out carrying a Ruger Bearcat in a Threeperson style with a leather hammer thong.
Next was a Ruger Single Six in a Hunter brand holster with a strap over the trigger guard with a snap.
Then there were .357's, .41 mags, and a .45LC in various leather holsters with both hammer straps and trigger guard straps.
I have twice experienced frozen firing pins on below zero mornings (after wet miserable days) that took 2 (or 3?) hammer strikes to fire. (Hence calvary style)
Twice that I can think of I've lost my .357 for not sticking it back deep in chap pocket. A couple hours searching and tracking were successful finding it both times.
I lost a stainless steel 5 shot 38 special from a coat pocket. 2 days searching were fruitless.
I've made calvary style holsters with full flap that snapped down. Pistol sits so deep I don't have to keep it snapped, it stays put and dry.
My opinion
The hammer thong 2 inches or so longer than hammer served me better than hammer or trigger guard strap with snap. Not only does thong keep your pistol in holster, it keeps anything from pulling on your hammer in a wreck. I like a holster open on the bottom and longer than barrel (lets any trash fall through).
Now I carry in the calvary style holster with flap covering all the pistol (or deep in chap pocket with flap snapped). The holster is 1 1/2" longer than the barrel and open on bottom to let any debris fall straight through. The longer length protects the barrel from getting stuck in the ground if I get bucked off or fall down.
If I ever have to go through Hell and High Water, a secure functioning pistol (with clear bore) is more important to me than the second, (or half second) it takes to get it out.
Joe
I started out carrying a Ruger Bearcat in a Threeperson style with a leather hammer thong.
Next was a Ruger Single Six in a Hunter brand holster with a strap over the trigger guard with a snap.
Then there were .357's, .41 mags, and a .45LC in various leather holsters with both hammer straps and trigger guard straps.
I have twice experienced frozen firing pins on below zero mornings (after wet miserable days) that took 2 (or 3?) hammer strikes to fire. (Hence calvary style)
Twice that I can think of I've lost my .357 for not sticking it back deep in chap pocket. A couple hours searching and tracking were successful finding it both times.
I lost a stainless steel 5 shot 38 special from a coat pocket. 2 days searching were fruitless.
I've made calvary style holsters with full flap that snapped down. Pistol sits so deep I don't have to keep it snapped, it stays put and dry.
My opinion
The hammer thong 2 inches or so longer than hammer served me better than hammer or trigger guard strap with snap. Not only does thong keep your pistol in holster, it keeps anything from pulling on your hammer in a wreck. I like a holster open on the bottom and longer than barrel (lets any trash fall through).
Now I carry in the calvary style holster with flap covering all the pistol (or deep in chap pocket with flap snapped). The holster is 1 1/2" longer than the barrel and open on bottom to let any debris fall straight through. The longer length protects the barrel from getting stuck in the ground if I get bucked off or fall down.
If I ever have to go through Hell and High Water, a secure functioning pistol (with clear bore) is more important to me than the second, (or half second) it takes to get it out.
Joe
Vern Humphrey
Member
That's my thinking, too. A deep holster, well moulded, will hold a pistol securely. I did use a flap holster my first tour in Viet Nam, when I carried a personally-owned Colt M357 and found it took care of the gun under some of the nastiest conditions you can imagine.
Once again, you and I are in agreement.
joeoim
Member
What become of your Colt M357?
Vern Humphrey
Member
I still have it.
The M357 is the same gun as the Python, but without the barrel lug and the extra polishing and deep bluing. It's a treasure.
The M357 is the same gun as the Python, but without the barrel lug and the extra polishing and deep bluing. It's a treasure.
joeoim
Member
That's great.
Could you post a picture?
I'd like to know where you got it (new?) and how you got it over and back, if you don't mind telling us.
Thanks
Joe
ps
a picture of your holster too.
Could you post a picture?
I'd like to know where you got it (new?) and how you got it over and back, if you don't mind telling us.
Thanks
Joe
ps
a picture of your holster too.
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Vern Humphrey
Member
You can see a picture at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=213040
The system will not let me repost it here.
In Viet Nam in '66, they threatened us with a firing squad for bringing our own guns, then filled out some paperwork that made it all legal, including bringing them back home.
The system will not let me repost it here.
In Viet Nam in '66, they threatened us with a firing squad for bringing our own guns, then filled out some paperwork that made it all legal, including bringing them back home.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I made it. I make all my holsters.
I find most holster designs are not as useful as they might be, so I design and make my own. It's not all that difficult -- anyone can do it.
I find most holster designs are not as useful as they might be, so I design and make my own. It's not all that difficult -- anyone can do it.
joeoim
Member
Thanks Vern
I enjoyed the pics.
Not the best picture of your Colts.
Pants & coats must have been made with Man Sized Pockets in 1849.
Special bonus looking at all the neat pictures everyone else shared in that thread.
You have packed the dickens out of that little detective special.
Malamute said #55
It looks like your little Threepersons works. You rarely see such a ("dainty") well traveled .44 that clean.
A picture is worth a thousand words. I tried to put it here with your post but don't know how.
A man would be a fool to argue with anyone that has packed anything that big that long.
Thanks for putting it up.
Joe
I enjoyed the pics.
Not the best picture of your Colts.
Pants & coats must have been made with Man Sized Pockets in 1849.
Special bonus looking at all the neat pictures everyone else shared in that thread.
You have packed the dickens out of that little detective special.
Malamute said #55
Malamute,
It looks like your little Threepersons works. You rarely see such a ("dainty") well traveled .44 that clean.
A picture is worth a thousand words. I tried to put it here with your post but don't know how.
A man would be a fool to argue with anyone that has packed anything that big that long.
Thanks for putting it up.
Joe
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