A No Knock Warrant Death

[cassandrasdaddy]

there you go messing with the fantasies by interjecting facts

poor guy probably thought it was guys coming to take off the dope dealer. pretty safe buisness for bad guys since dope dealer can't go to cops. course if you don't like that kinda thing you might not want to sell dope for a living. in virginia if he was dealing a lil dope had the gun and now hes shot a cop hes toast.and should be. having the gun while dealing dope makes it a felony killing someone during a felony gets you first degree murder. and va it just might get you one last shot of dope and the big sleep. funny how selling pot fot a lil cash seems like such a good idea at first. i've know 4 or 5 guys who've paid the price for it

 

[corncob]

The children of people killed or imprisoned by government employees also grow up without parents.

It's funny to me how people who kill or die for government enterprise are "heros" when they are on the payroll and "criminals" when they aren't. As previous posters have said, SWAT teams need to justify their existence. "Heros" need villains or they don't have a job. In other words, anyone can rough-up their fellow man for fun--it takes an oppressive system of immoral laws that "criminalize" a group of previously normal people to make it profitable.

I am so tired of the War on (some) Drugs. It has made people crazy. No one here would suggest that it would be moral for me to break into my neighbor's house and kidnap him based on what he grows in his garden, or cooks in his basement, or smokes, or injects into his arm, or sells to someone else at a fair, agreed-upon price--especially since I've never actually seen him do it, only heard it from another neighbor who is an admitted home-invader and thief.

But if I pay someone else to do the very same thing it becomes not only moral, but absolutely vital to the safety of our community.

 

[thumbody]

primer

So, I don't do any stupid stuff to give them a reason to.

You mean like over 300 of these victims of No Knock warrants!

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

 

[JWarren]

Thanks for posting that Thumb... I was going to look it up in my Favorites later.

I am not against LEOs, and I am not per se commenting on this case. I *AM* against No-Knock Search Warrants-- or should I say the EASE by which they are issued.

I may feel better when I see evidence that those getting them can repeatedly and reliably use Mapquest.



-- John

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

Nice try, CornCob, but your logic undermines our ENTIRE system of Government. Laws don't appear out of thin air. Like it or not, flawed or not, our laws come from the people.

Are there rediculous laws on the books? Absolutely! We don't fix those laws by simply selecting what we will obey and what we won't. We fix the laws by changing or eliminating them. By ignoring and breaking laws you do nothing but strengthen them. By breaking the laws you actually prove a NEED for them, after all, we wouldn't need the law if you wen't doing what you were doing.

So what you're saying is. Let's say you're a practicing necrophiliac. Well, hell, no reason NOT to let you dig up corpses and have sex with them, right? After all, who's the victim? Besides, the law is a stupid one and does nothing to serve the interests of mankind. The only thing that law does make criminals out of people who otherwise wouldn't be criminals.

So what say you, CornCob? Are you ready to stand behind my Necrophila Protection Act and get all those rediculous laws repealed which only prevent us from using inanimate objects for our pleasure?

Or perhaps, society needs to draw the line SOMEWHERE. People on both sides will always bitch about where that line is but it needs to be SOMEWHERE.

By the way. What is with you guys? You keep griping about no-knock warrants even though that isn't what happened. It was a "knock and announce" search warrant. Those have been about for two hundred years.

STOP WITH THE "NO-KNOCK" WHINING!!!! IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!! STOP MAKING STUFF UP!!! YOU'RE ACTING LIKE Democrats!!!!

 

[chipperi]

I have personally witnessed a knock and announce warrant where the entry team goes to the door and one officer very lightly taps on the door and looks at another officer and asks "did you hear that?" When the other officer nods his head through the door they go. They were using the law in the grey area as the law where I lived only said they must knock as to be heard. It didn't say heard by who. I think alot of places have closed that loophole though to make it loud enough for occupants to hear.

 

[Eric F]

I live in the area near this event my brother-in law who works for the city of Chesapeake knew this officer
I have not had the time to read every post in this thread but some of you folks really piss me off with stuff like

Officers'Wife

He who acts like a home invader gets shot like one. The guy deserves a medal for protecting his children, not a jail sentence because the intruder turned out to be a 'good guy.'

Trouble with the ends justifying the means is the people in the middle can't tell who is playing what. What a pity.

Selena

whats wrong with you? Do home invaders frequently yell police search warrent? I dont think so. Right wrong or indiffrent had the person not been using drugs he would never of had a warrent served.

 

[JWarren]

Guys... settle down and get the facts straight. It seems that there are a number of seperate issues here that probably should be broken into a couple threads.


First:

THIS actual case. Do we know for certain that the "Knock" warrant was actually heard? That DOES make a difference in what a reaction would be. If someone whispered "Police" at my door and kicked it in while I was in the study, I may come out defending myself. Whose responsibity is that????



Second:

No-Knock Warrants. A lot of people here are commenting on the case assuming that this was a No-Knock Warrant. I have seen a post or two here indicating that it was not.

No-Knock Warrants should have their own thread and not be discussed here IF this was a Knock Warrant.




Now an editorial part from me....


HERE is why many of us are against NO-KNOCK warrants:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=273051&highlight=no-knock

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=275624&highlight=no-knock

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=266064&highlight=no-knock

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=219438&highlight=no-knock

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=193552&highlight=no-knock

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160869&highlight=no-knock

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=154106&highlight=no-knock

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=54214&highlight=no-knock

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=40942&highlight=no-knock

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=39074&highlight=no-knock

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=24569&highlight=no-knock



And that is just from a quick search.



-- John

 

[Eric F]

Do we know for certain that the "Knock" warrant was actually heard?

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?s=7758590

 

[ArmedBear]

No-Knock Warrants should have their own thread and not be discussed here IF this was a Knock Warrant.

Agreed.

If this was a properly-executed, standard warrant, of course the guy should be up for murder. No question.

WRT the "need" for no-knock warrants for drug cases: if the guy has so little inventory that he can flush it down a toilet in less than a minute, hell, I don't think that it's a tragedy for society if the "bust" doesn't turn out to land the local cops on the front page. This is more about politics for the next election for Police Chief than actually "keeping drugs off the streets." And if the guy is really a big-time dealer, he won't be able to flush down all of his inventory anyway.

I can see the need for no-knock warrants if there's a psycho kidnapper with a young girl tied up in the bathroom, or a violent gang waiting to shoot the cops. But for run-of-the-mill drug busts? Even if you really believe that it should be government's role to keep people from smoking weed (and I don't), do the benefits outweigh the costs of executing no-knock warrants?

But as I said, if the police announced themselves and the guy shot them through the door, he should be up for murder.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Eric, I saw that video too.

It's a tragedy all around. A nexus of bad decisions resulting in loss for everyone.

This will erode community faith in the police, bolster the ideas that are entrenched behind the blue wall about "citizens", and will effectively take two lives whether the young shooter gets the death penalty or not.

What do people do to ensure this doesn't happen again? What do the police do?

 

[Justin]

This one's run its course.