A partnership for powdercoating.

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For me the quench would mainly be a way to get the bullets loose from the foil before everything solidifies.

But first I'm gonna make the switch to nonstick foil and see if that helps
 
I was going to post about it the other day but photobucket wouldn't take my pic.

Last batch I quenched a few hot plucked straight out of the oven with needlenosed pliers and let the remainder air cool on nonstick foil.

Both worked equally well.

There was a bit of powdercoat flash on the air cooled bullets but without being glued to foil as before it popped right off with a quick scrape of a thumbnail.

The quenched bullets appeared to have suffered no ill effects to the PC as far as I can tell from outward appearances.
FD0536FD-A101-4E41-A88A-702F49DC6CCB_zpsbbgplhel.jpg
 
Looking pretty worthy.
A little cleaner than what I pop out of my plates.
Today I am doing some full plastic jacket in the base down method to refine the rack and iron base method.
The way I see it, the base needs not to be an ideal coat.
Under cured wouldn't hurt anything as it needs only to take the flash heat.
 
Hmmm... no news ?
Got the mold for my AK a little bit ago. Haven't had time to remove the GC portion yet :rolleyes:
 
Thanks Dale.
Everything else I read so far said that w/out a GC you lose accuracy ?
Might not matter at 1K fps ?
I'm gonna be trying to go at least twice that for the experiment though.

I could give it a go as is and once I see that I can get the speed I want, if the accuracy is waning, I could mod the mold at that point.
Less work for the moment at least.

I was also figuring on making the lube grooves smaller when I did the GC.
More like a TL mold as the deeper grooves aren't really needed with PC.
Plus I use liquid alox anyway, at least I used to ;)

I did make 165 boolits with the mold today.
I also noticed, for some dumb reason. I neglected to buy the sizer :banghead:
Since they are dropping at .313 & my muzzle, using calipers, measures .311, then add a smidge for the PC :rolleyes:
Maybe they'll shrink up a smidge after they sit for a day or two.
 
Powder coating and lead exposure

So this has already been touched on but I wanted to get some opinions/experiences from others who powder coat. If the O.P. would like, I will start my own thread but I thought it relevant here.

I recently posted that I had high lead issues in the past which is one reason why I started powder coating. I recently had a follow up test and my levels have actually gone up significantly since I started powder coating(21 to 35).

For the most part, I take heavy precautions when casting, loading and shooting so I don't want this to turn into a discussion about that. What I am curious about would be possible avenues of exposure that we might be presented with when powder coating.

For example, I have tumbled bullets in PC multiple times without wearing a mask. Do any of you think it is possible that the PC is abrasive enough to generate fine lead dust when tumbling? Is it possible that the Harbor Freight PC has lead in it? I don't see any disclosures on the bottle but...

Finally, we do know that naked lead bullets do generate a measurable amount of lead vapors when being fired. Is it possible that powder coating doesn't prevent this as much as we believe it does?

I am just curious what others of you think about this. I know my own lead issues are shooting related since none of my family members or co-workers have issues but I can't seem to pinpoint where I am being exposed.
 
Schwing, if you are coating your own bullets, then you are gaining no advantage as you still have to handle bare lead. If you are worried about lead exposure (and I did see your thread on that), why deal with bare lead at all?
 
To not hijack this thread which focuses on the virtues of powder coating like cost/equipment/ease/challenges like humidity with primary objectives of not using messy/sticky lube, eliminating lead fouling of rifling/gas system and attaining 2500+ fps with cheaper coated bullets, we should discuss lead hazards in the lead thread so other THR members/guests can review all lead related information in a single thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=307170&page=10

I will post my response to Schwing on the other thread.
 
Well, the majority of the summers' major shooting is over.

I was able to cobble together one final casting run as promised from the remains of the testing run.

I'm going to be sizing, sorting, and counting the remains for distribution as promised this week.

In the end :

#1- this is great stuff for glocks. I got to compare the PC bullets to non-PC "professional" cast bullets and to my own, and there is no comparison in terms of leading. Polygonal barrel ? PC or Plated, which is cheaper or easier for you ?

#2 Long bullets don't stand well. They do seem to work just fine if you lay them on their side for curing, provided you can get over the cosmetic issues. I'm not sure there is a real good "cosmetically appealing" method to do these using the "shake and bake" method. If you can pop them tip down in a tray and spray them, awesome.

#3 PC not sticking to your bullets ? SHAKE HARDER AND FASTER. Seriously. MUCH faster. The static seems to build exponentially between those little BB's the more aggressively you shake them.


Those are about the only "certain" conclusions I can draw beyond those already made.
 
#1 - HK/Glock owners rejoice!

#2 - You know, I have been thinking about making a double metal rack with pins on top and bottom to hold the long rifle bullets between two pins held with spring tension. I could send you pictures of the prototype and if it works well in your toaster oven, ship you the prototype.

#3 Shake harder and faster? I thought you resolved the lack of static electricity issue by rubbing the container on carpet?
 
#3 Shake harder and faster? I thought you resolved the lack of static electricity issue by rubbing the container on carpet?

Found out that if I just shake it like a taxman, for a few seconds longer than "necessary", that it works good, too.


#2 - You know, I have been thinking about making a double metal rack with pins on top and bottom to hold the long rifle bullets between two pins held with spring tension. I could send you pictures of the prototype and if it works well in your toaster oven, ship you the prototype.

I'd have to see it ! Everything I've ended up trying either warps the bullets ( lead under spring tension when heated brings this to mind) or sticks the bullets to the "tray", or othwise makes them appear crappy.

I'm starting to realize though that nice clean PC looks great, but like most things, appearance can be deceiving when it comes to function.
 
#3 Shake harder and faster? I thought you resolved the lack of static electricity issue by rubbing the container on carpet?

I have found that warming the bullets up slightly increases the bonding significantly as well. Just a few degrees above room temp will do. If you get them HOT, they clump and look terrible.

I think this is why I have such great success with the Harbor Freight Black. I warm them up a few degrees and it sticks very well.
 
#3 - Now he tells us! OK, shaking hard is good/better than carpet. Check

#2 - Ahhh. Forgot about 350F-400F heat making the bullet's hardness softer. How about a rack like this (sorry for the rough drawing) which won't put any pressure on the bullets?
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That would work great.

The problem becomes getting the PC'd projectiles in those little slots. If the little pins on the bottom were non-stick nail heads, that might help. I'm certain you would end up with more than one you couldn't get "un-wedged" when the PC bound the bullet to the stabilizers.


I have found that warming the bullets up slightly increases the bonding significantly as well. Just a few degrees above room temp will do. If you get them HOT, they clump and look terrible.

I'm sure doable, but tricky. Our temps swing pretty wildly pretty fast here. I'd rather not have to handle any more warm lead than I have to !



If cosmetics didn't "sell the boat" so to speak so well to so many, I would do these on one of the ........


Nah, I'm gonna hold on to that one :D
 
I did say "rough" drawing ... ;)

I was thinking of using silicone tips for the pin ends. They are non-stick and temperature safe for 350F-400F baking temperature range.

We could use rounded/flat tip for the bottom pin and pointed tips for the top.


Wait a minute ...

How about using silicone block with round holes? You simply set the bullet base in the hole and bake.

Slight cosmetic blemish at the base won't be seen when the bullets are loaded in the case yet the powder coating will completely encase the lead alloy.

What do you think?

I guess we could use multiple silicone sheets and punch holes and use a flat sheet for the bottom to hold the bullet base.



You could test by buying a silicone baking sheet and cutting it in even piece for multiple layer silicone block.

Stack hole punched sheet pieces and set coated bullets and bake.
 
How about using silicone block with round holes?

Our brains are wandering in the same direction.


The only "problem" is that until it cures, the PC "dust" is really just that- dust. Rubbing or sliding the bullet across any ridgid surface will remove it, as its held only by static !


I wonder if we could get a beveled hole in the sheet that would encompass enough of the bullet to keep it upright and undeformed during the curing process, but far enough down on the ogive that it keeps a majority of the bullet coated.
 
You guys are over thinking this

As long as the blemished portion isn't on the bore diameter portion bullet shank it really doesn't matter.

I coat rifle bullets nose down in a tray with holes a little smaller than bore size.

It gives then a soft point look

FD0536FD-A101-4E41-A88A-702F49DC6CCB_zpsbbgplhel.jpg
 
R.W.Dale, love the way how those bullets came out.

That's what I suggested to blarby to powder coat .300BLK bullets and what I would do after retirement for my cast rifle bullets.

But we are kicking ideas around to see if we could find ways to fully coat and bake the bullets for cosmetic appeal. We know clean brass can shoot as well as shiny brass but some of us really want the brass to have mirror shine. :D
 
The other thing Dale, is that you are spraying them.

That removes a heap of the mechanical problems :D

For this excercise, spraying is out the window.
 
A fine mesh would have really small points of contact

You might try a screen of some sort to lay bullets on to bake

For example a pull bullets hot out of the oven and water drop them using a long pair of needle nosed pliers.

Because of the very small point of contact of the serrations inside the pliers resulting blemishes are inpreceptable
 
It's good to see the OP's make a return.
I see we have all been busy.
Ive gotten the redline up to 2700 FPS.
better coatings and harder alloys can finesse a few hundred more out of it, albeit at the expense of expansion.
theres some dangerous game loads in that equation.
 
The other thing Dale, is that you are spraying them.

That removes a heap of the mechanical problems

For this excercise, spraying is out the window.

and with that goes a few very worthwhile powders that should be treated spray only.

in my last string of testing, two powders rose to the top of the heap. All Powder Paints Arctic Cat Green, and their Teflon Slip Black.
Both have properties that helped me gain another 200 FPS without coating failure.
Green will work with shake and bake, Black needs to be the full coat the first time.
it's thermal cure, rather than thermal set, and makes an astonishing release layer.
once cured, adhesion of subsequent layers is difficult or impossible.

Check your state laws before use of it, it is legal in most states, but not all, even some that kinda surprised me.
Teflon coat is not limited to bullets ...
I did the raceways, barrel, guide rod, and barrel bushing of my 1911 in this stuff, refit the parts and ran it bone dry of grease or oil for 2k rounds.
its accuracy and performance were much improved.
that old war horse spent the day showing an HK USP, Sig P220, Glock, and S&W M&P how it was done, so it remains worth having even if you cant legally use it on bullets.
one shot gun permalube.
I love this stuff like a fat kid loves cake.

another thing I've played with was a bullet repair method using the piglet coating method.
I see this one a lot.
someone who does not cast, buys a box of hardcast that leads up his gun.
He asks for help and hears "Lube and size correctly" as the advise.
Sorry man, you can't make them bigger with wax and a size die.
At the end of the day, this individual will have a big old box of undersized useless, a gun that won't have em, and a half bottle of aspirin headache from being inundated with advise that won't work.

The fix ....
dump them in an old pot, fill with water, and bring to a rolling boil.
Let cool and skim off the lube.
Add a little vinegar, and return to a boil.
remove from heat and immediately dump the pot out onto a screen.
let em dry.

coat using the Piglet method, where the powder is mixed with acetone, and tumbled till the solvent has evaporated.

Bake and repeat.

yeah, it works.
Might not be as good as properly born coated cast, but it does fix a box of mistakes.
Try it to confirm as you wish. We finally have a solution to offer.
Now if I can just get the old guard to embrace, at least this, as the long needed roll of ducktape we've been looking for, something great would have been accomplished.
 
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