A question for AR owners.

[jagdpanzer347]

How many of you prefer the M16A1/SP1 to the A2 or M4 types? My personal experience is limited to a ban era A2 and a 6920. I greatly enjoy them both. However, I do have a new Colt M16A1 upper waiting to be built on a NoDak lower. I can't wait to build it because The A1 will always be the iconic AR to me.

 

[Carne Frio]

I have at least two of each and prefer the flat tops
because of the ease of mounting optics and lights.

 

[bannockburn]

I have always preferred the "look" of the Colt SP-1 to all other later variations of the AR-15 platform. It's the one rifle I dreamed about getting so many years ago. Not to say newer variations on the AR-15 theme aren't also desirable or capable; just that this is the one rifle I always wanted and still enjoy shooting (especially with the iron sights out to 200 yards), whenever I go to the range.

 

[45_auto]

I've got about a dozen AR's that I play with, but my "GO TO" AR is an A1. No worries about sight adjustment wheels getting bumped or batteries being dead. Grab it if I need it and I know that it's zeroed and will work.

 

[Art Eatman]

Not really interested on add-on doo-dads; I'm mostly a hunter, so my fairly plain-vanilla 20" Colt is plenty good. I bought a CMMG flat-top upper, 20" slow twist flat-top and put a K4 on it. Either way, it's one MOA.

 

[amd6547]

I have a complete, surplus A1 upper I built into a rifle a few years ago. I really like the A1 sights and the 20" pencil barrel...so light, yet full 20" ballistics.
That being said, I am selling the A1 upper.
I am reducing my collection. I have an A1 upper with a 16" HBAR carbine barrel and will make that my only AR. The other upper is for sale on a couple boards as we speak.

 

[hardluk1]

Guess I prefer the shorter lighter 16" m4 style . That's what I just built with just a few upgrades with FFT and a better barrel and a 1.5-6 scope.
Should serve well for coyote's out to 300 yards.

 

[LeonCarr]

I prefer the 20 inch A1/A2s to the 16 inch barrel varieties. IME they balance better, are more accurate in both slow fire and rapid fire, and as mentioned have no batteries to go dead or replace. IMO maneuvering in close quarters is the only advantage a 16 inch AR has over an A1/A2 style, but that can be important in a CQB type situation. I still like the 20 inch barrel length better.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[12Bravo20]

I prefer the A2 over the A1 since I shoot left hand. I carried an A1 for the first few years I was in the Army and didn't get an A2 until 1992. Hot brass landing on my right arm did not feel very good.

 

[boricua9mm]

My first AR was an M-Faux purchased during the ban. Since then I've owned various 16" and 14.5" pinned midlength and carbine gas guns, and I recently traded into a '76 SP1.

The SP1 really is a sweet combination of design elements; one that needs to be handled, carried and shot to be fully understood. It is very lightweight, thanks to the pencil barrel and fiberglass furniture. The SP1 is actually lighter than the basic M4 carbine. It is very nimble and swinging it back and forth from one target to another is pure joy. It also happens to be a sweet piece of firearms history that can and should be appreciated for generations to come. Unfortunately, longer barrels are more cumbersome in and around vehicles and buildings. I have not noticed my SP1 to be any more accurate than my carbines, and with a 1:12 twist, it's a 55gr only affair (I don't waste time with superlight varmint loads). Once you start adding on auxiliary components (optics, railed forends, etc.), the modern flat top carbine leaps ahead and becomes the wiser choice.

The SP1 is a buttery smooth shooter with iron sights that (for me) are easy to use and since they are mechanically simple there is little to worry about. The classic look, lightweight and handling characteristics are very refreshing and almost "pure." Also, aside from the bolt carrier and notched hammer, these old guns are excellent examples of "Mil-Spec" from a time when hardly anybody knew what any of those markings actually meant.

This day and age, my "emergency" gun is a 14.5" pinned midlength with a lightweight barrel, free float handguard, a quick detach sling, an Aimpoint micro, flip-up iron sights and a bright white Surefire light. All things combined, it's a bit heavier than the SP1, but it has been my experience that a good red dot and a weapon light offer lots of advantages in the modern world, namely in terms of target identification and speed.

 

[NWcityguy2]

A1s are great for nostalgia but I think that M4s and flat top ARs have some good modern improvements. Optics ready, 1:9 and 1:7 twists (though I won't lie I only shoot 55gr bullets which work fine in 1:12 barrels), adjustable stocks and more factory configurations all add functionality.

I used to be all about KISS and tradition, but these days I'm more about taking advantage of modern improvements.

 

[chris in va]

If I had to do it over again I would look at a flat top A2 style. There's just something about the full rifle length I like.

 

[strambo]

I'm a "form follows function" person and as such I just can't get behind the 20" muskets and especially not fixed carry handle sights. The velocity gain from 16" to 20" just doesn't justify the increase in weight and length. Slap on a good adjustable stock and a combat-proven optic like an Aimpoint, Eotech or ACOG and the M4 type is gtg from CQB out to the reasonable max effective range of the cartridge.

Even w/o optic, the carry handle still doesn't make sense, just put a good iron on the flat top and always have the option for optics later. As far as batteries go, I left my Aimpoint H1 battery on and it lasted 3 yrs. Changing it on my birthday would have been overkill x3!

The rifles do have one key advantage. The rifle length gas and rifle receiver extension make for the most reliable configuration. That said, properly lubed M4s can go over a thousand rounds between cleanings (just keep lubing them) so it isn't a real-world advantage IMO.

 

[boricua9mm]

Devil's Advocate responses...

The velocity gain from 16" to 20" just doesn't justify the increase in weight and length.

In the case of the M16A1/SP1, the gun is lighter than a stripped, basic M4. Length would be the only penalty. The A2 is a pig, even if it does have "better sights."

Even w/o optic, the carry handle still doesn't make sense, just put a good iron on the flat top and always have the option for optics later.

What if there's never, ever going to be optics riding up top? Few would argue that a bolted on iron sight is more durable than a fixed carry handle.

Again, just playing Devil's Advocate here. There are many advantages to a flat top carbine, but the A1/SP1 is one slick-handlin' shootin' setup.

 

[MistWolf]

As cool as they look, I've never liked the SP101. I don't know why, but they feel awkward and it takes me too long to pick up on the sights. The first AR I was able to shoot well was the A2 flat top (what's now called the A5).
View attachment 687831

I now have a 20" I built to mount optics on. Not a lighweight, but I like it's balance
View attachment 687832

I may build another 20" using a lightweight barrel, but not as an SP101

 

[strambo]

Devil's Advocate responses...



In the case of the M16A1/SP1, the gun is lighter than a stripped, basic M4. Length would be the only penalty. The A2 is a pig, even if it does have "better sights."


What if there's never, ever going to be optics riding up top? Few would argue that a bolted on iron sight is more durable than a fixed carry handle.

Again, just playing Devil's Advocate here. There are many advantages to a flat top carbine, but the A1/SP1 is one slick-handlin' shootin' setup.

I hear ya, but the Devil's advocate response to the response on the lightweight SP1 issue is there are plenty of LW profile 16" and 14.5" barrels out there now. My 14.5" LW midlength DD upper handles like a dream.

As far a sights, a bolt-on fixed rear is pretty darn rugged, I don't think the theoretical increase in "ruggedness" of the handle is worth the bulk. Having the optics option just makes too much sense to me even one thinks they will never use it. Heck, just for resale value alone, the flat top is worth it.

Though I learned on an A2 in Basic Training, I could never be nostalgic for that long, heavy setup. I could get into a CAR-15 type carbine which was what I carried when I got to my first unit. It was basically an A2 with full auto trigger group, collapsible stock and short barrel (11.5"? I'm not even sure). I have no idea what the official nomenclature was, we just called in a "CAR".

A 14.5" LW midlength upper with an A5 receiver extension would be very light, short, reliable and shoot very soft. I'd like to upgrade to the A5, but it just costs too much to justify.

 

[boricua9mm]

My 14.5 DD setup with a LW profile barrel weighs more than my SP1, and if I took off the Aimpoint, the scales would still favor the SP1.

A lot of you guys keep grouping the A1/SP1 with the A2, but they really are worlds apart. That heavy A2 barrel profile spread out along the length surely doesn't help. The recent returns to the LW barrel only reemphasize that.

If I had to hump a rifle for a long distance and didn't have to worry about urban conflict, an old A1/SP1 would be welcomed in my arms, especially considering the iron-sighted alternatives in the world today.

 

[silicosys4]

I have both, and I also prefer the flattop. If I were building a period-correct gun, I would use it to stay correct, but the A1 upper limits optic options severely.

 

[nastynatesfish]

I prefer 20". I like the A2 fromt sight by like the rear flat top. I just put a 20" hbar bushmaster together it was a stock xm15 20". I like fixed stock on it also. I like a quad rail front hand guard. I don't know where that places me but I know when I pick it up and line sites up I'm on. I put a aimpoint pro on it and I like it. Remmy 2 stage trigger and a mako ergo grip. Dust feels right for me

 

[jagdpanzer347]

This is a good thread. Glad I started it, LOL. My 6920 is my go to, but I really like the idea of KISS rifle's as well. No bells, no whistles. Something to take into the field that doesn't weigh 10 lb's with all the accessories. I'd like to build a CAR with a 1/9 pencil barrel after the A1 build. Then maybe a XM177E2 clone and then.........

 

[Justin]

The old style M16A1 rifles are great for retro builds and general purpose rifles. They're light, handy, generally ergonomic, have good sights from the factory, and shoot with reasonable accuracy.

That said, I much prefer the newer-style flat-top AR-pattern rifles as that one simple change opens up a world of possibility for attaching optics in a manner that doesn't feel kludgy.

Also, the trend of installing float tubes in place of the old school hand guards is one of the fastest ways to improve the mechanical accuracy of the rifle.

In short, I see the differences between the classic M16-style rifle and the guns with the more modern look to be born of incremental evolutionary steps that have made a good rifle that much better.

 

[bobinoregon]

As much as I love my SP-1 I actually shoot my flat top Stag more just because of the left handed feature. Got a carry handle for the Stag but I've never put it on.

 

[Jackal]

A quality minded lightweight build ( sub 8lb ish loaded, with optics) is optimal for me. I never have understood the heavy weight AR phenomenon. If you have a 10lb+ military style rifle (varminters excluded), it sure as hell better shoot a .30 bullet.