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A question on a nonconventional loading tecnique

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Bucksnot, Jan 3, 2012.

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  1. Bucksnot

    Bucksnot Member

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    Hi all! I am new here and have a question on a reloading technique. I have heard of people loading bullets backwards into cases so the base faces upwards. As I understand it this is mostly done for subsonic loads.

    My question is, could someone take a round of military surplus fmj .223, use a bullet puller to separate the components, and use a hammer to tap the bullet back in backwards? I do not have any kind of reloading equipment at this time but plan on getting some. I realize the bullet would not be accurate this way but just want to make maybe 3 or 5 of these and shoot them into packed magazines to test expansion.

    Thanks, Bucksnot
     
  2. Mccarty

    Mccarty Member

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    I would highly recommend not trying that. How could 3-5 rounds be worth gravely injuring yourself or others. You will seriously run the risk of increasing pressures doing this. What on earth are you trying to achieve? This will certainly not yield a subsonic round.
    You mentioned you did not have any equipment, so my guess is that you are not a very experienced reloader - that and the fact that you are seriously considering this. If you are interested in reloading, please, take the more traditional route and do it correctly and safely.
     
  3. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    Do you have a vise?? that would be the preferred way to re assemble the round. Lacking that a C clamp would do in a pinch. You do not really want to take a chance of hitting a sharp blow to the primer by mistake. Yes you could do it but bullet to neck tension would be poor and accuracy will suffer unless really close. Would I recommend doing it the way you wanted to first?? NO Do you know anyone that reloads. If they do reload 223 then they might help you out and help you do it safely. You will most likely need to single feed the rounds also or they will jam. Also note above posters warning about pressure problems.
     
  4. Greg Mercurio

    Greg Mercurio Member

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    Preset your cell phone to 911 so a single key will summon help. If you can anyway. You asked. It is ill-advised.
     
  5. Tim the student

    Tim the student Member

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    I'd really recommend you not try anything like that. It is a bad idea for a number of reasons, especially if you have no idea about reloading.
     
  6. Bucksnot

    Bucksnot Member

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    Thanks for the replies. Uh, yeah I was thinking this wasn't the greatest idea but thought maybe some of you may have done it.

    Mccarty, you are correct, I am not very knowledgeable about reloading. I was going to see how this expanded, what with having almost a full caliber of exposed lead. I was not trying to get a subsonic load. I was simply stating that I have heard of others that have done it (who happened to be loading subsonic loads. It was supposed to balance better or something.)

    I don't know of any reloaders, so I guess I will just buy some stuff and follow established data instead of trying this.

    Thanks anyways, Bucksnot
     
  7. Oklacoyotekiller

    Oklacoyotekiller Member

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    ????!!!! Boy sure has a lot of deep fork in him! if you do this make sure someone films it. i like to watch that show worlds dumbest. sure it will make the cut
     
  8. Mccarty

    Mccarty Member

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    Glad to hear that you are thinking otherwise. Just get into the reloading part slowly and gain some knowledge and experience. Experimentation wil come
     
  9. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    While I salute your very inquisitive nature, I can also think of multiple ways to get into trouble with this. Reloading is very much like driving a car: It's generally safe if you stay in your lane and stay focused. What you are suggesting is akin to driving in the on-coming traffic's lane.

    The first rule of reloading and living to tell about it is this: Don't believe most of what you read on the internet.
     
  10. Bucksnot

    Bucksnot Member

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    Oklacoyotekiller, I guess you didn't read my last post clearly enough to see that I decided against it. Who's the dumb one now? I was asking this because I didn't know. If I knew I wouldn't have asked.
     
  11. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    Excuse me, sir, but several of us were typing at the same time. Your attitude seems to be lower than High Road expectations. Good day.
     
  12. Oklacoyotekiller

    Oklacoyotekiller Member

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    amen rfwobbly. on a more serious note. please don't try anything like this. if it sounds like a bad idea it probly is
     
  13. d2wing

    d2wing Member

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    A lot of people suggest things that are not good ideas. This is one of them. The front of the bullet is designed to emgage the lands and may have exposed lead. The base is designed to to withstand the pressure of the propellent. I see no good reason to attempt to reverse any bullet at all under any circumstances. No benefit and lots of potential danger.
     
  14. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    There are several things that are very risky with that idea. First is you would guessing what OAL will accomplish this without pressures going sky high. This is going to be especially difficult since the backward facing bullet is going to contact the lands unless the nose is seated much deeper than the base was, which is what will deffinitely increase pressures unpredictably. Also is the flat bases would, now the leading end, is not going to enter tha lands as easily and will likely shear off some jacket and might also add to increased pressures due to the increased resistence and delay when slamming into the lands.The second problem is trying to re-seat them using a hammer without detonation them. And the third issue is pulling them without the use of a kinetic puller or other tool made for this without destroying the bullet. And the forth problem is how to plan on re-sizing the necks after pulling them.
    I wouldn't do this unless I had the proper stuff and advanced knowledge, and a test barrel that can safely absord the excessive pressures during testing. A transducer would also be a nice tool to determine what level of pressures are occuring. With as much altering and developing you have in mind, it would be to your advantage to invest in at least the very basic reloading tools. Lee makes a hammer and die kit that will reload effectively. Though it is a slow and combersome relaoding set up available from Lee, they do work and are very inexpensive to purchase.
     
  15. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

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    Bucksnot, don't let anyone dash your inquisitive nature. It never hurts to ask. Judging from the answers so far, no one has actually tried this and they're all guessing as to the outcome.

    I did it when I was a kid for no good reason other than like you, I was curious. Seems like I might have read about this technique in one of my Dad's old reloading books or magazines, and that set my wheels to turning. I reloaded a few rounds with the bullets seated backwards and fired them. (If I remember correctly it was in a 270 Winchester) No harm, no foul. I and my rifles are still intact and all that was lost was a few good bullets.

    I also loaded some jacketed bullets backwards in one of my .357's as I read this was a good way to remove lead from a barrel. It worked great, but I later discovered that the same bullet loaded traditionally worked just as well.:banghead:

    All that being said, I wouldn't reverse a bullet without reducing the load which of course would require handloading equipment. In fact any attempt at this should only be tried with handloading equipment and someone who knows how to use it.

    Here are some folks who have acutally done it too
    :
    Shooting Bullets Backwards

    Seating Bullets Backwards

    Backwards rifle bullets

    Bullet Loaded Backwards

    I'm going to go get my fire extinguisher as I'm sure some Old Hens are about to flame me!:D

    35W
     
  16. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    Na, no flaming here 35Whelen. We just don't want to hear of someone getting hurt while attempting to redesign a safe and functional cartridge.

    I certainly tried risky things, like building exploding arrows. They worked very well, but one of them detonated before it left the arrow rest. But I still have one good eye left, and a few fingers too! But seriously, it did det. before leaving the rest, and I ended up with a bloody hand and face, no missing eye's or finger's though. I didn't stop there, and did eventually designe an arrow that would not possibly det. until impact with it's target. I still use that design for archery jack rabbit hunting.
     
  17. Renigeid

    Renigeid Member

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    DO NOT do this!!!!!!!! Anything else typed I am sure will be a waste. Jim
     
  18. res45

    res45 Member

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    Well one thing is for certain you and Elmer Keith will be in good company since back in his day he did that quiet often during the depression when SP bullets weren't available using surplus FMJ bullets loaded backwards to take big game.

    It's a pretty common practice among 30 cal. subsonic shooters using the 168 gr. BTHP bullet. Accuracy is good out to about 200 yds. and terminal performance is enhanced by the flat base and exposed lead core. Personally I haven't tried it as of yet in my subsonic rifle loads since I have a good supply of lighter weight cast SWC pistol bullets and a spit of Bullseye that will accomplish the same task.

    +1 couldn't agree more on that.
     
  19. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    I see another "here, hold by beer" moment on the horizon...
     
  20. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    Whatever happened to the often used quote,"THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A STUPID QUESTION?" Buckshot didn't know so he asked. Gently saying "no it's not at all a good thing to try." Coming from me, some may be surprised that I would say that, I tend to call 'em as I see them.

    A BTHP bullet is usually a match bullet IF it has a hollow point, the base is closed. If it is a military match bullet, then the point is solid and the base open. Also, a BTHP is a BOAT TAIL, not flat based.

    The open base of a FMJ bullet may expand, or it most likely won't. It LOOKS like a monster hollow point, BUT it has no internal skiving that would create a mushroom effect. People don't know it but all soft point bullets have grooves on the inside of the front of the jacket, skiving, to allow the jacket to rupture and peel back. What really happens is the flat base on the run-of-the-mill FMJ is what produces shock to cleanly kill game animals. It's called meplat, and is commonly referred to in SWC pistol bullets. The wider the meplat, the more shock that's produced.
     
  21. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    I'm no expert since I've only done it a few hundred times. I used jacketed in both .223 & .30-06.

    I found that in most of the charge weights the backwards bullets produced tighter groups. In all they produced about 300fps more then there equal. The higher fps is more then likly from less case volume. I measured the difference but I can't remember what the difference was.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  22. Bucksnot

    Bucksnot Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. It was good to here from some people who have actually done this. I also thank you for your encouragement to keep an open mind!

    Oklacoyotekiller, I am sorry for my response to you. I was a bit out of line but also think you worded your reply a bit harsh. It came out sounding like you were calling me unintelligent. Anyways, lets forget about it.

    That being said, I still will forget about doing this.
     
  23. Oklacoyotekiller

    Oklacoyotekiller Member

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    no problem. got pretty thick skin. my biggest problem was the method of reloading. hammers and loaded ammo probly shouldn't be used in same sentence. lol. get a reload kit. not that expensive. use a lee kit I've had about 20 years. works great
     
  24. Metal Tiger

    Metal Tiger Member

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    Hey Bucksnot,
    Welcome to THE HIGH ROAD. Good job there. Hope to hear from you some more when you get your reloading gear.
    Cheers
     
  25. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    reminds me of the acme rocket testing.
     
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