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A question reguarding gov. firearms data base

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Brutuskend, Sep 22, 2020.

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  1. Brutuskend

    Brutuskend Member

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    I don't particularly like the gov. knowing what I have legally in my home and here in Oregon we do not have to register our firearms. That said.
    Question.
    If you have a firearm that was left to you or for any other reason isn't on any government data base and it is stolen and recovered , or if it is ever "checked out" by the police for any reason, can they then enter said firearm in a firearms database legally?
     
  2. RickD427

    RickD427 Member

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    The short answer is "Yes." The only prohibition on a firearms database that I'm aware of is in 18 USC 926(a)(3). That statute forbids the federal government from establishing a registration system using FFL sale and transfer records.

    It doesn't forbid the federal government from maintaining a database of stolen and recovered firearms, and there actually is such a database within the NCIC. That database does not offend 18 USC 926(a)(3) because it's constituent records are not drawn from prohibited sources.

    State record databases are controlled by state law. I can only speak to California, which maintains the Automated Firearms System as it's state database. There are several different indexes within that database for the Dealer Sale, Transfer, Voluntary Registration, Mandated Registrations, Assault Weapon Registrations, BB Assault Weapon Registrations, .50 BMG Registrations, and Firearms that are Lost, Stolen and Recovered. When a firearm is in the custody of a law enforcement agency, there is a state statute that requires its entry into the AFS before it can be returned to its owner.
     
    fastbolt, Spats McGee and Brutuskend like this.
  3. Brutuskend

    Brutuskend Member

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    Thanks!
    Good to know.
     
  4. Craig_VA

    Craig_VA Contributing Member

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    Side comment: For years I have been amazed that every scriptwriter for television shows and movies thinks that every firearm can be traced through such a database, and every gun owner must have registered each gun. I guess there are awareness problems with living only in New York or California.
     
  5. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Firearms Use by Offenders.
    91% of state prison imates who used or carried a gun in the last offense for which they were imprisoned, declared they acquired their guns from sources other than the commercial sources (gun shops, pawnshops, gun shows or flea markets) used by 60% of ordinary citizens.

    The only value in a registry of legally purchased firearms is over-regulating and restricting the law abiding. It won't identify the majority of criminals with guns.
     
    tommy.duncan, P5 Guy and Brutuskend like this.
  6. Cannibul

    Cannibul Member

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    Even better is when the state the show is supposed to be in is a Free State.

    Say the show is in Texas. They talk about the gun being registered to someone. Sorry, but that's not the case. There is no gun registration in Texas.

    Personally I think it's the Leftist/Liberal/Progressive movement working to get Americans thinking that Universal Registration is a good thing to have.
     
  7. Brutuskend

    Brutuskend Member

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    So if state law controls the data base, does that restrict the feds from acsessing it?

    On another note. Oregon is a open carry state. If the police request you hand over a weapon they see you carrying "in the open" .

    #1 Do you legaly have to hand it over?

    #2 If so, can they then copy the number and add it to the registry?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  8. Brutuskend

    Brutuskend Member

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    Also, do you know if black powder revolvers fall under the same laws as regular modern type handguns when pertaining to carrying them in your vehicle?
     
  9. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Outside of NYC, only handguns or "assault weapons" are registered in NYS, not typical long guns.
     
  10. RickD427

    RickD427 Member

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    The access would also be controlled by the state. California provides federal agents with full access to its system. I do not know of any state that does not allow federal access to their systems.

    I can't comment on how Oregon law would apply to your second question. I don't have any experience with their legal system.
     
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  11. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    I do NOT know your states laws but, I would speculate YES. If not specifically labelled as such , it would most likely be covered under a ''other dangerous ordnance'' catch-all type clause
     
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  12. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    I live in Florida (and have since I came back from the service all those years ago..). If you asked me about my state's "firearms registry" I'd say HUH? since we don't have one at all... I suspect most states are in the same situation...

    As far as firearms reported stolen - that is a national database within NCIC (at least the last time I checked...) and it's available to any law enforcement agency nationwide. Once a firearm is entered into it - it's there forever - or until it's been recovered and removed from the listing, or purged from the files after so many years... It's entirely possible that someone might do an honest purchase of a used firearm - then subsequently learn that it had been reported stolen and entered into the registry years and years before... but that's another story entirely...
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  13. Twiki357

    Twiki357 Member

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    Here in Arizona it is actually illegal for any type of firearm registry to be maintained by the state or any lower jurisdiction.

    A number of years ago, the city of Kingman was maintaining a list of firearms brought into the local court house. Weapons are prohibited in the court house and it provides secured lockers for firearm storage while people are inside. The court security was requiring those using the lockers to sign in, including identification of the firearm they were storing. The sign-in lists/sheets were being retained be the court. As the result of a complaint, the state AG filed a law suit in state court against the Kingman court maintaining that it was a form of registration. End result, by state court order, was the Kingman court had to pay a small fine to the state and destroy all of the records.
     
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  14. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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  15. Brutuskend

    Brutuskend Member

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    Pretty ambigus isn't it? I don't think they have it all sorted out. I bought a bp pistol at cabelas, no back ground check, but they made me sign a doc. stating I could legally own a fire arm. Someplace's seem to lean one way on this issue of them being a fire arm, and other place's lean the other way. Guess we will have to wait until someone get's charged and let it get sorted out in court. Hopefully that won't be me. The way the law on regular handguns is now, unless you have ccp you can't have a pistol in you car unless it's unloaded and locked in a glovebox or something similar. I have the paperwork for my ccp, but with the covid, it's real hard to get that sort of thing taken care of right now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
  16. 23tony

    23tony Member

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    There is actually a guide book that's published and made available to the film industry on how to depict firearms in movies and on television. I have read it. It is almost complete anti-gun propaganda BS with no basis in fact. But it's touted as the go-to reference for the industry, so that's what we get.
     
  17. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    Even if not registered it is still possible to track down the guns owner. Not always, but it can be done in many cases. When a gun turns up in a crime the SN is entered into the stolen gun data base to see if it has been reported stolen. If it has, the person who reported it is contacted. It may be some time before the gun is returned, and in some cases it isn't worth going to get it. I had one stolen a few years ago. It was a $200 gun new, and was recovered 700 miles away. It wasn't worth a 2-3 day road trip and 1400 miles to get it back. Told them to keep it.

    If it hasn't been reported stolen and if there is a need to try to figure out ownership LE will contact the manufacturer and determine who they sold it to. There is still a paper trail from the manufacturer, to the wholesaler to the individual gun shop. The ATF can then go to the gun store and have them pull 4473's to determine who it was sold to. It takes a day or 2, but it can be traced back to the original purchaser. Not every case would justify the effort though.

    If the original owner no longer owns the gun and cannot provide information as to who he sold it to then it is a dead end. But often they will know they traded it in at Joes Gun Shop. LE can then go to Joes Gun Shop and start over with 4473's. On a gun purchased recently the odds of tracking down the owner are good. On an older gun that may have changed hands multiple times the odds are much less.
     
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  18. Heir Kommt Die Sonne

    Heir Kommt Die Sonne Member

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    Yes there are no gun registry in most states. In Texas or in Utah where i'm originally from, no registry (and i'm thankful.)

    However I'll add, that doesn't mean all police officers and officials of the law know this. Alot of the time, they believe there is a registry and they expect you to provide 'paperwork' on your firearm. In some states, this is used as an excuse to consificate firearms. Other times, the official of the law really doesn't know any better. This is why it's important to know your rights and correct anyone who goes on about "this gun is registered to so and so", because that gives fuel to the idea that a universal registration system would be a good thing.
     
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