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A serious question about anti-gunners

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by DT Guy, Nov 13, 2017.


Can gun control advocates can also respect gun rights?

  1. Yes, you can respect something and still want to limit it

    18 vote(s)
  2. No, respecting gun rights is incompatible the a gun control agenda

    63 vote(s)
  3. Something else, and I'll explain in a comment

    11 vote(s)
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  1. TomJ
    • Contributing Member

    TomJ Member

    Jul 3, 2014
    What you're describing sounds like an enforcement problem, not problems which need additional laws or further restrictions of our rights. By way of example, what you experienced at your range would not have been allowed at the gun club I belong to. We have range safety officers who are respectful but vigilant. Someone being a good guy would not be an excuse for unsafe behavior. I live in a Chicago suburb and can assure you that if I shot any kind of gun here, unless it was at a range, I'd be arrested.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
    bc38, 1911 guy and bandit10680 like this.
  2. yokel

    yokel Member

    Apr 29, 2007
    Alas, the Second Amendment debate has been intentionally superficial in an effort to sway soccer moms. Fiendish leftists advance their agenda slowly behind a deceptive veil. The ultimate goal is gun confiscation under the pretext of enhancing public safety and stopping crime.
    Soccer moms and other assorted dupes do not comprehend that they are being cynically used (and conservatives fear they will frighten them by discussing the real issue). Leftist intellectuals, however, understand the real issue—an armed citizenry stands immediately athwart the door leading to their idealistic Utopia.

    Leftists despise America precisely because it is not a utopia, is temperamentally unsuited to utopian ideas, and cannot become a utopia in its present Constitutional formation. Leftist judges attempt to dismantle the restrictions of power and the checks and balances that hinder the coming of utopia. But these restraints are precisely what makes the Constitution so wise. It is what makes life in America so admirable to human reason, so temperate to ordinary human hopes, and so amenable to human prosperity.
    everydefense, bandit10680 and TomJ like this.
  3. tark

    tark Member

    Nov 25, 2013
    atkinson, ill
    No, it's paved with anti-gun, close minded, arrogant liberal idiots. They aren't all like that but most of them are. It is useless to try and reason with them. I like to remind them that MY side is the one with all the guns. I also remind them that you can only kick a dog so many times before..... OOPS.... I know....I shouldn't act like that! Doesn't help our side one bit. I know....

    I also don't care. Besides, I smile and wink at em" when I say it...;)
  4. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    I think some can, but that is a small minority I suspect.

    Most gun control advocates make statements like " I hate guns " , and "guns are just made to kill" For the most part they want to take all guns out of the hands of all citizens other than police or military. They don't want one, so they think you don't need one either.

    There are a minority of gun control advocates that think more control means less crime, but they have not done their homework. . They think gun control is crime control ,and that simply is not true.
  5. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    Missoula, Montana
    It's pretty black and white to me. The Amendment says "shall not be infringed." So you either support my right to own a firearm, to be an autonomous and self-determining, and to defend myself and those around me, or you do not. There is no gray area. The Second Amendment is not about hunting. It is about preventing the government from obtaining a monopoly on violence. You'll always notice that the anti-gunners start such arguments with "I support the Second Amendment BUT..." There is no buts. You either do, or you don't.
  6. GAF

    GAF Member

    Feb 20, 2012
    I`ll just say no to that question.
  7. jamesjames

    jamesjames Member

    May 15, 2010
    Southern Oregon Coast
    I also voted that respecting gun rights is incompatible with gun control. The idea that man possesses inalienable rights comes from an enlightenment view of the individual. The individual is strong, competent, dependable, independent, capable of fully participating in a democracy that requires personal responsibility.

    The basic idea behind gun control seems to be that man is unworthy, can't be trusted, is flawed, and must be controlled by an outside, superior force that knows better. Specialist skills and knowledge are possessed by experts, and we create systems and depend on qualified experts to deliver the services we can't perform for ourselves. Sanitation, Clean water, Food, Health Care, Education, and above all, Public Safety are delivered by trained professionals. Many who live in high-rise buildings can't even drive a nail in a wall to hang a picture by themselves--- they must call the building "super" (superintendent) to come up and drive the nail for them. In this world view, Public Safety is provided by a system of laws and regulations and enforced by law enforcement. There is no place in this ordered worldview for an empowered individual with enough self responsibility and self control to possess and use firearms. The empowered individual is a threat to public safety and good order.
  8. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

    Feb 11, 2013
    I must say I do find it interesting that the sheep want the shepherds, to become sheep. But the wolves? Well there’s always going to be wolves. So they get a pass. But those damned shepherds.....they’re the ones who need to disarm.

    Edit: And look. California just had 5 killed at a school shooting......Where the shepherds are some of the most heavily regulated. Guess those mag restrictions really worked. I’m sure we’ll be hearing from someone (Rocketmedic) soon.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
    bc38 likes this.
  9. theotherwaldo

    theotherwaldo Member

    Mar 30, 2008
    In the Wild Horse Desert of Texas
    My ancestors include Scots-Irish, Poles, Jews, Pottawatomie, Coosa, Creek, Bantu, and other people that failed to run away fast enough to escape the powers-that-be. All had been disarmed in the face of tyranny at one time or another. Many fought on after being disarmed. Many died.
    In this, I am determined not to emulate my ancestors. I will not be disarmed by tyrants.
    chicharrones likes this.
  10. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

    Jun 5, 2006
    In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine.
    Some of them sincerely THINK they do. But no matter how good their intentions are, they are just a step towards the end goal, one more infringement we will have to pull BACK.
  11. HoploDad

    HoploDad Member

    Oct 7, 2013
    To the OP's statement/question: "Gun control advocates can also respect gun rights."

    The more you educate a gun control advocate, the less control they advocate. Instead of arguing with them, take them shooting. In a perfect situation take them shooting outdoors, use a .22 rifle, have a huge emphasis on safety and give them hittable, satisfying targets. D o n o t hand them something that will knock them over upon trigger pull, is deafening or will shoot wildly. Your "fun" watching their discomfort will confirm their original feelings, and you (we) have lost.

    As familiarity, comfort and enjoyment replace their ignorance & naturally resulting fear, these people will swing to your side. Hardly anyone does this; why is that?
    everydefense and 1911 guy like this.
  12. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

    Apr 26, 2016
    Mechanicsville, VA
    By definition a gun control advocate can't respect a gun owners rights.

    So the answer is no, regardless of how open-minded they want you to think they are.
    drunkenpoacher likes this.
  13. entropy

    entropy Member

    Feb 9, 2004
    G_d's Country, WI

    Almost the crux of the argument. More like 'They don't trust themselves with one, thus they don't trust anyone else with them either.' The moral and intellectual disconnect is that they don't realize criminals aren't going to obey gun laws, because by definition, they don't obey laws. Add in the naivety that they believe if you call 911, those shining knights in blue will be there in time to prevent any actual violence from happening. (Not disrespecting cops, just some folks' ideas of what they do.) A recipe for social utopia...sure. :confused:

    Someone that thinks like this, perhaps?

  14. milemaker13

    milemaker13 Member

    Jan 14, 2013
    Chicago area
    Why don't they just make a law banning crime? Problem solved!
    everydefense and bc38 like this.
  15. Archie

    Archie Member

    Dec 31, 2002
    Hastings, Nebraska - the Heartland!
    Serious, leftist people who live, breathe and dream gun control have - for some reason - come to believe guns are inherently dangerous. Just a gun around is dangerous. Just a firearm of any time is a danger to any and all human life on the planet.

    None of them (whom I have spoken with) will outright say so, but in conversation I get the idea they feel all guns are endowed with some evil curse, independent of the owner or possessor.

    Seems to me they have a token regard for the Constitution and individual rights, but they hold guns - not metal, not plastic, not wood - as malevolent. Much as most of us regard uncontrolled radiation, poison sumac or mammalian feces. It is close to being a religious taboo or article of faith.
  16. roscoe

    roscoe Member

    Dec 27, 2002
    Not at all true, logically speaking. One could very easily argue for the right to have a shotgun or handgun, or even an AR for protection of self, but still not want folks to be able to buy a M249 SAW without a background check.

    Binary thinking is unproductive. And there is too much speculative psychoanalysis in this thread.
    John G C 1 likes this.
  17. grampajack
    • Contributing Member

    grampajack AR Junkie

    Mar 31, 2016
    No siree bob. That's like saying you support honor killings, and yet claiming to respect the rights of women in the same breath, or saying you're a gay Christian. The liberal capacity for claiming mutually exclusive beliefs knows no bounds.
  18. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator

    Mar 15, 2012
    On that happy note, the noise in this thread just clobbered any useful signal in it.
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