A shooting spree in the UK,that happend today.

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I threw up when I heard this (Just after eating a big meal), terrible thing to hear and my heart goes out to all of the victims. I have a feeling the UK will have a total ban on firearms if the guy was a legal gun owner.

But what I am very concerned is their would be a copycat crime in Australia. I got the idea from the fact the last massacre we had in Aus was a copy cat shooting of the last one in England.
 
It should also be noted they are quite restrictive of even the ammo someone can buy.
Just buying some slugs or buckshot is not as simple of a process as buying some birdshot or target loads.
 
HSO,
It's not that difficult, at the moment anyhow, to get an FAC providing you haven't been too naughty in the past. Any crime of violence would probably prevent you from being granted one as would any conviction for a firearms offence (this includes air rifles). If you have served a term of imprisonment of 3 years or longer you're banned from possessing firearms for life.
Here's a link to the various forms you have to fill in to apply. http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/firearms/certificate-application-forms.cfm
Talk about jumping through hoops.
Hope this helps.
Fred.
 
Past incidents of this type have never failed to result in major changes to British gun control, invariably for the worse.

There is little difference between the parties on gun control, only degrees of strictness.

A bad development in recent years has been the emergence of single-issue anti-gun pressure groups, who can be relied on to give the right response when the media presses their button. They are (very) small in numbers, but exert a wholly disproportionate influence.
 
There was an attempted massacre a while back maybe 1 or 2 years ago in Eastwood, NSW. Some nut kid was going to shoot up a mall, but they reported him acting suspiciously. Luckily he only wasted himself.

Really hope it doesn't happen here.
 
My deepest condolences to all in the U.K. and the suffering families.
It's a sad,sad situation when a person who's soul is that dark strikes out at the innocent.
Absolutely pathetic.
Very sad.
 
Unfortunately the govt will listen to the public, who are kept in a fearful state by the media, the fact that most firearms incidents are carried out with illegaly held weapons & replicas matter not one bit- 3 FAC holders have gone bonkers, 2 of them caused bans, watch out watch out!
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This time around,all of us together shall&will not be the 'silent minorities' that we were many years ago.Im not as bothered by the Tories,as much,Im bothered by the Liberal Democrats,as they are lefties.The Tories will p off their supporters if they ban something,as well as the BASC&the Liberals,well judging from Nick Cleggs recent behaviour-they think he sold his sole for 30 pieces of silver-so we don't know where his loyalties lie.He'd probably sell us down the rivers for another 30 pieces of silver.
 
But what I am very concerned is their would be a copycat crime in Australia. I got the idea from the fact the last massacre we had in Aus was a copy cat shooting of the last one in England.
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That would probably be heavily influenced by how much air time the incident receives in Australia.
Will the media be showing the incident for days, and making a big spectacle out of it?
They certainly don't do that when someone drunk from a pub kills around as many people in a deadly crash between two full vehicles.


A week or two or more of solid dedicated air time as happened previously tends to be more suggestive to certain individuals. Producing copycats.
While just mentioning it with other news does not.
 
There was an attempted massacre a while back maybe 1 or 2 years ago in Eastwood, NSW. Some nut kid was going to shoot up a mall, but they reported him acting suspiciously. Luckily he only wasted himself.

Really hope it doesn't happen here
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Thats nothing compared to what happened in Adelaide a few weeks ago. Some guy wounded two police officers with an M16 (Apparently, but it could have just been an AR).
 
Yeah, that doesn't matter though since AR-15's are pretty much banned. The kid here used a Glock 17A.

We got to get The Shooters Party into federal parliament. TSP is doing a great job in NSW.
 
That's the catch: up until now, there wasn't total government control in the UK - it was still possible and relatively easy to own bolt action rifles and shotguns. It is very likely that the shooter was a legal gun owner. As a freedom- and gun-loving European, I am afraid that this might become the perfect excuse for a total ban - "See ? We need to ban them all !"
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I hope that before the Brits make such a knee jerk reaction they remember that China has a total ban on gun ownership... and it has done nothing to make the country any safer either. Instead of guns, the crazies are just attacking with knives, clubs, stones, cars, etc. Where there is a will there is a way. Virtually anything can be used as a weapon if desired.

The bottom line is that tragedies happen in society, and there is nothing we can do to change that fact. Humans are emotional and inherently unstable. This is why people should be able to defend themselves.
 
That would probably be heavily influenced by how much air time the incident receives in Australia.
Will the media be showing the incident for days, and making a big spectacle out of it?
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It's top News on the News.com.au website, so it will no doubt make top news on TV.

Oh and has anyone found if the guy was a legal gun owner?
 
Yeah, that doesn't matter though since AR-15's are pretty much banned. The kid here used a Glock 17A.
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Well to the mass public which no longer owns a gun in a country that is typically anti-gun, it does not matter.
Most citizens don't even understand what is legal or restricted out of reach of most.
It is yet another gun causing crime. :rolleyes:
Which means there is not enough restrictions yet to prevent gun crime, misuse of guns, and the latest one: a gun culture that encourages firearm use.

The European Union just passed some major anti-gun legislation a few years ago and said a prime reason was specifically to keep a strong gun culture from forming, and preventing the public from gaining the belief they are entitled to a right to arms.

So they are not just after the guns anymore, but the culture itself so they won't have to fight it in the future.
Misuse of any gun, legal or not, is an excuse to rally against such a culture, and keep it weak or non-existent with new rhetoric and laws passed with the purpose of keeping guns from being common.
 
Yeah, that doesn't matter though since AR-15's are pretty much banned. The kid here used a Glock 17A.

We got to get The Shooters Party into federal parliament. TSP is doing a great job in NSW.
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Crap... That would give more ammo (excuse the pun) for the Greens and the Nazi Coalition for Gun Control for a ban on semi-auto handguns.

Oh and I voted TSP on the last state elections in SA. Not sure if i'll vote for them since I plan on voting for the Liberal Democratic Party (Only libertarian party) for the federal election.
 
"He was not aware of him owning a gun, or being a member of any gun club, he said. A neighbour also said he had never seen Bird carrying a gun or a shotgun but he added that game shooting was not uncommon in the area."
 
The truth is in such places pro-gun people are typically defeated legislatively because they argue for recreational use.

You have gun people arguing in favor of firearm privileges so they can do recreational activities. Then you have the antis arguing against guns because they can be misused to seriously injure or kill people.
So the argument becomes: Recreational ability vs Lives.
With such an argument the outcome is almost already decided.

Now with the arguments more common in the US, primarily self defense (even though the right stems from the ability to keep tyranny in check) you have an argument which is stronger:
Good use of firearms to save lives, or stop people trying to hurt others on one side VS the antis highlighting misuse of firearms to injure or take lives.
The argument becomes more about lives vs lives, and what freedoms someone should have for that purpose.
Instead of lives vs recreation, it is lives vs lives.
You cannot win arguing for the ability to hunt, or target shoot at the range on occasion.
(Yet that is all that has become politically acceptable in many nations.)
 
He was not aware of him owning a gun, or being a member of any gun club, he said. A neighbour also said he had never seen Bird carrying a gun or a shotgun but he added that game shooting was not uncommon in the area."
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Either Bird stole the guns from his parents house,after an arguement&went on the spree,after this or that he might of owned a license.I believe that Bird was a gun owner&that the neighbour wouldn't of known about this,anyway,as Bird never really talked alot&was very quiet,around people.If someone doesn't talk about owning guns&are very discreet with transporting the guns,in locked-cases that look like stage-equipment or camera -cases-then who's to know properly?
Most people can't tell what a long-gun case looks like,except for ones in the shape of a guns.
 
It's quotes like this that highlight the unrealistic ideology that fuels draconian gun control:

"This kind of thing doesn't happen in our part of the world," local lawmaker Jamie Reed told the BBC. "We have got one of the lowest, if not the lowest, crime rates in the country."

This quote is from the AP story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100602/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_shooting

There you have complete acceptance by the people that if guns are outlawed it keeps them out of people's hands. It doesn't, criminals who already have a disregard for the law, still get them. Which leads me to believe that if the criminals have guns why shouldn't you the law abiding citizen? And while people in the UK may use less firearms to commit violent crimes they use more knives and other primitive weapons. So gun control's effect on crime is nil. But then gun control is more about control and less about guns after all isn't it?

By the way UK people should use this tragic incident to argue for the ownership of firearms by law abiding citizens so that massacres like this can be stopped quickly. Don't let the anti-gun crowd twist this around into an incident for more gun control, although I'm not sure how much worse it could get.
 
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That dog won't hunt here. It's more likely to be argued that access to firearms should be restricted to the smallest possible segment of the population.
 
Isn't gun ownership fairly expensive in the UK? I have always been under the impression that you had to be a member of a gun club (probably not cheap) or a hunter (again not cheap in the UK). I am an American in Tennessee and a member of a gun club....but the idea of having to be a member of a gun club would weed out a lot of people....also the expensive requirement to be a hunter. I have heard that hunting in the UK is more expensive than in the States because it is all done on plantations. I am under the assumption that UK hunting clubs are not just a bunch of guys who get together and lease timber/paper company land to deer hunt on.....pull the RV's up...build a fire...and camp out.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4581871.stm

Ban guns... Ban knives...


Last Updated: Thursday, 26 May, 2005, 23:48 GMT 00:48 UK


Doctors' kitchen knives ban call

Doctors say knives are too pointed
A&E doctors are calling for a ban on long pointed kitchen knives to reduce deaths from stabbing.
A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.

They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.

The research is published in the British Medical Journal


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I predict when someone goes berserk, and kills 6 people with a cricket bat, and some ass starts legislating... Someone will stand up to inject sanity into the arguments.

There will always be a segment of the population predisposed to violence, and the worst voice is always the loudest.

I still hold out enough optimism that most of my fellow man can be trusted with more than a Spork in their everyday lives.
 
It's not that difficult,
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Matter of perspective.

I have purchased shotguns, rifles and handguns from friends without any government involvement.

I can purchase the same from a local gun shop with only an up or down background check to verify that I'm not prohibited from purchasing a firearm. No record of the sale goes to the government.

If I understand what's been said, in the UK you have to get prior approval just to be able to purchase in the form of a "certificate" and you can only do so with government tracking of each and every purchase. Sounds like total government control of firearms purchase and possession in the UK vs. what most American citizens experience.

Is more government control possible, you bet, but if the government decides if you can even qualify to purchase common firearms and they approve and track each individual purchase then they totally control firearms ownership.

Even with this total control of firearms ownership they can not prevent these sorts of incidents. Even if they switch to total banning they can't totally prevent them either.
 
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Wow, just wow. If you can't stop people from making knives in prison, how in God's name do you expect to do anything about knives out in public?
 
It sounds like in the U.K. gun ownership is kinda like this:

You have the right to free speech. However, you have to be a licensed writer for a recognized newspaper to practice said right. The government also censors what wording you're allowed to use in your articles.
 
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