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A thousand guns?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Picher, May 9, 2019.

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  1. Picher

    Picher Member

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    I've watched the goings-on the past few days regarding the guy who had a THOUSAND guns in his California home and they're being seized by the police.

    I'm wondering what reason they had for taking the guns from the guy. Why doesn't the 2nd Amendment protect him? Has he been involved in trafficking stolen guns?

    If he has legally obtained the guns and they weren't stolen from people, how can they justify taking them???

    Anybody got any information that's not being reported in the national news?

    JP
     
  2. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    Someone flagged him because they thought he was manufacturing guns, ie, making homemade guns.

    At least that was the latest I had heard.
     
  3. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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  4. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    Rest assured, the local and state governments will do everything in their power to ruin him. . . and if they fail, and are forced to return his property to him, you probably won't hear about that.
     
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  5. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    They reported on the news tonight, that they did NOT know if he had any gun "offences", that they were going to have to check EACH ONE to see if it was used in a crime!!! They also said some of them date back to the civil war!

    What the heck! They even arrested him, but he's out on bond. They did NOT say what he was arrested for.

    DM
     
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  6. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    well hopefully after this is all over, he will sue for all the damage to the guns and other things a good lawyer can add on.
     
  7. bk42261

    bk42261 Member

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    The first that I had seen about it said something to the affect that he had " illegally
    transferred, transported, or loaned " a weapon. Once any of your guns are "in the system" they gotcha one way or another.
     
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  8. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    The media said he was suspected of being a straw purchaser and selling guns to criminals. I don't know if they had good reason to believe that, and law enforcement in CA often just say something to demonize someone to the press and never have to correct it by the time nobody cares about the old news.
    They also claimed some of the weapons are assault weapons, but they do that all the time even when it is a compliant firearm, and don't correct that in the media even if the charges don't pan out.

    As an FFL you are already going to be on the radar. Government has trouble governing everyone, and licensing is really the report on yourself and maybe we can catch something system. You are signing up to be extra scrutinized and monitored because while they cannot monitor most of the population, they can keep tabs on the much smaller number of FFLs
    Being an FFL doesn't let you hide better in plain sight, it actually causes you to be reviewed and gives the feds and state officials the ability to partially throw your search and seizure rights out the window under a lawful inspection of your inventory and business.
    He may have done all they are claiming, he may have only transferred some guns maybe in ways allowed in some states but not CA, or he may just be a victim of being too into guns in Los Angeles and getting caught.
    Having a large amount of firearms in your name will show up when you look up a person in CA.
    Most guns transferred legally in the state at least since 2014 are registered to the owner in a database available to the state government, law enforcement, or anyone that hacks the database locally or abroad.
    So he likely had a large list attached to his name.
    Many people that have owned various guns more than awhile may also own some that were reclassified as an assault weapon later, and so even if most of the charges don't pan out they probably have something to stick him with.

    Asset forfeiture is one of the strongest motivators of the criminal justice system. If you own a large number of firearms you have a readily stolen by government asset. An asset that is unlawful to even own as someone convicted of or wanted for or under indictment a felony. At the federal level one does not even have to be convicted of or even charged for a crime for various forms of asset forfeiture to allow the seizure of assets.
    It brings in billions of dollars every year, and distorts the motivation of our justice system, and reminds me a lot of the for profit private prisons that lobby for tougher sentencing and want as much slave labor they are paid to house as possible.
    Guns are like the perfect thing to steal as big government wanting some extra money. Most people just don't have an inventory large enough to warrant asset forfeiture motivation. There was a reason the ATF issued those agency Leatherman multi-tools inscribed with 'Always Think Forfeiture' as a play on their acronym all those years ago.

    I came to realize this when I considered whether firearms are a good investment. How many other things can you invest in that can be banned, seized, or you can cease to legally own for a variety of things.
    Additionally many states increasingly add easier and easier ways to take firearms away from people than most other property. Even if given back the firearms taken and stacked during collection, handled by various law enforcement, and stored in an evidence room where they are often stacked and dragged across each other and other items or stored in bins or barrels leave scratches and damage that would reduce the value of many collectors items.
    In CA and some other red flag states it is quite common to be accused of and lose firearm rights at least temporarily during a divorce or other issue now.
    As a result I now consider them tools, and even though they tend to hold their value better than most consumer products, they are not an asset I consider worthy of significant investment.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  9. dekibg

    dekibg Member

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    "The weapons seen in aerial footage appeared to include a handgun with a silencer, an AR-15 pistol, an Uzi with silencer, two Thompson submachine guns, sawed-off shotguns and guns with barrels made too short to comply with California law. "
    What is normal about this ?
    Why there is jerk knee reaction to defend everyone ( even a criminal in this case) , just b/c they are gun owners ?
     
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  10. G'dale Mike

    G'dale Mike Member

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    Aw naw! 2 Thompsons?.. i guess they’re headed to the shredder
     
  11. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    You become cynical, especially in the more anti-gun places.

    Since gun ownership has been established as an individual right once again as of Heller which the states cannot revoke, those that would like to revoke it instead do all they can going about it in other ways.
    They add increasing complexity and a web of laws to reduce who can have guns, by banning more people instead. While going as far as they think they can in reducing what types of firearms are allowed.
    Often times even when not charged or guilty of anything the press reports in such areas still start out sounding rather firm in their case against some predatory danger.

    It would appear though based on at least some things observed he will be in trouble if those are not law enforcement demos.

    I expect to see these types of things more frequently. I get the feeling in the states that over reach with gun laws more of the citizens into firearms become spiteful and if they are going to ignore some laws with severe punishments created by the state, are probably also more prone to also start ignoring federal and other laws they may have followed.
     
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  12. DM~

    DM~ Member

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    Hoe do you know they are sub machine guns?? Thonpsons were made in semi auto too...

    Media also said the feds were tipped that he was mfg. guns... They admitted that didn't know anything for sure...

    All of this is just guessing, maybe he has stamps for full auto weapons? Maybe he has stamps for his cans??

    DM
     
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  13. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Maybe newly released “fast and furious” information.?
     
  14. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    AFAIK Federal agencies and many state and local governments do not permit the sale of seized guns. There is no financial incentive for them to seize guns. Few seized guns make it to an agency's inventory. Those not converted to the agency's use will be destroyed.

    There is more to this story. The LEOs had to come up with sufficient probable cause to get a search warrant and/or an arrest warrant. This had to satisfy a judge to sign the warrants.
     
  15. caribou

    caribou Member

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    You can realistically only use one gun at a time, so he was no danger to anyone out of the norm, gun wize.

    We don’t know. Everything can be legally had with the proper licensing, so he’s innocent until proven guilty, and that’s as important as his right to own a firearm.

    Maybe he offended someone’s gay cat.......Its California, where they have been infiltrated by blithering idiots that govern, guarded by transsexual social justice warriors, who protect the kingdom of the victims, the offended, the adult babies that deem objects Evil and make the common folks defenseless, for their own good.......
     
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  16. Davek1977

    Davek1977 Member

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    Lots of .22 handguns sold with mock silencers these days that are totally non-functional. Ar-15 pistols are commonplace in places other than Cali. Thompsons have been made in semi-auto variants. Can you distinguish between something like a Mossberg Shockwave and a "sawed off shotgun" from aerial footage? There are far more questions than answers, which is why theres a knee jerk reaction as you call it.
     
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  17. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    All we know is that there has been an arrest on firearms charges. Since there is no legal issue as to California laws concerning firearms, all we can do is speculate--and that does nothing but use up bandwidth.
     
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