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A video about the Taurus Safety Flaw

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by chipperi, Oct 4, 2008.

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  1. Soldiersurfs

    Soldiersurfs Member

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    For a ND or AD to occur due to this flaw you must depress the trigger with a round in the chamber , then apply the safety. Anyone that does that has no business with a gun anyways
     
  2. sturmgewehr

    sturmgewehr Member

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    It never ceases to amaze me the lengths otherwise rational people will go to in an effort to excuse flaws in their pet brand.

    Any rational, non-bias firearms owner would agree that a firearm that will fire with the safety engaged has a design flaw and should be corrected.
     
  3. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    Joe will find a way. Mark my words.

    It's a flaw that shouldn't be an issue, but due to human nature and stupidity, it will likely become one at some point. Both owners of the pistol and the manufacturers thereof ought to be intimately aware of the way the pistol works. I don't want some idiot shooting a bystander, but I don't want Taurus to get sued over this either. I'm a fan of knowledge. Were I an owner of this product, I'd certainly like to know. Thanks for posting the video.
     
  4. GregGry

    GregGry Member

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    I completely agree however that doesn't cover the fact that its not supposed to do that. If you view how that works as ok, then there is no point to having a saftey on that firearm to begin with. So either Taurus needs to fix the problem, or eliminate the saftey, thats my opinion.
     
  5. stolivar

    stolivar Member

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    duh

    I have a brand new 24/7 pro compact. all you have to do is move the trigger less than .25 of inch and put the safety on. it will not be in safe mode. it will fire.

    I did this after watching the video. I don't carry it with the safety on anyway.

    I agree that this is a design flaw. A bad one at that. :what:

    Not only that the gun could go KABOOM, since the slide is locked by the safety.

    steve
     
  6. Hunter0924

    Hunter0924 Member

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    I have nothing against Taurus but I am sure this is a dangerous design flaw.
    If the trigger of an unaltered firearm can be pulled with the safety on there is a problem, period.
     
  7. Jason_G

    Jason_G Member

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    Safety rules or no, I would call that an engineering flaw.
    It shouldn't do that. End of story as far as I see it.

    Jason
     
  8. swingcatt

    swingcatt Member

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    As a knowledgeable firearm owner, you should never put any faith in a mechanical safety. That being said, the sad reality is that there is a fair amount of gun owners who do not practice as they should and purchase affordable firearms like this solely to keep in a nightstand until needed. Those are the people this affects. Should they practice firearm safety training and shooting more? Absolutely. Will they? Probably not. I teach 100 or so students per year and I would say a majority of them will never touch a firearm after my class. Sad, but true.

    Thanks for posting that video. I will be sure to use it as an examle of why you should always learn the nuances of your firearm. - SC
     
  9. LUPUS

    LUPUS Member

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    Could not agree more.
    Any safety that can be engaged regardless of the position of the all mechanical components should prevent the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled. Otherwise it is certainly a design flaw.
     
  10. Phil DeGraves

    Phil DeGraves Member

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    By definition, Double action means that pulling the trigger performs the action of cocking and firing. Since a GLOCK cannot be cocked just by pulling the trigger but must be cycled first, the trigger only performs the SINGLE ACTION of delivering the striker to the cartridge.
    Hence, despite what GLOCK says about Safe Action and all that nonsense, it is by definition, a SINGLE ACTION pistol with no manual safety.
     
  11. Majic

    Majic Member

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    I didn't read every post so this may have been covered but does the striker actually hit the primer when the pistol is operated in the way described? Just hearing it click doesn't mean it has fired. It could act like a decocker (the hammer drops and it clicks but stops short of firing) and stop the striker short of contacting the primer. Either try it with the chamber loaded to see if it fires or at least insert a pencil and hold the pistol verticle and pull the trigger.
     
  12. donato

    donato Member

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    There are shooter safety rules and they should be strictly adhered to; however, any safety device added to a firearm (or anything else) should render that firearm (or anything else) idiot proof. If a safety device can be bypassed, in anyway, then it should have been designed better. Remember Murphy's Law.
     
  13. CJ

    CJ Member

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    Quote from Taurus Manual:

    "WARNING: To properly apply the manual safety lever, the
    trigger must be in its forward-most position, otherwise the
    lever can be moved upwards, but will not be fully engaged."

    Never did like this about the pistol, and the one ND I know of really sounds like this was exactly what the guy did, but it's not the end of the world.
     
  14. freebird60

    freebird60 Member

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    :confused:I own a 1st gen PT140(my only gun), I just don't see this as a problem. I consider myself a noob, but the four rules pretty much insures this won't happen.
     
  15. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    Its not actually. The striker is in fact moved rearward with the pulling of the trigger also. The glock does not fit into the category of DA or SA, which is why glock used that "nonsense" about safe action.
     
  16. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    You're right, you haven't read all the posts on this. The safety also locks the slide in the forward closed position, so this action here would at a minimum break the slide lock function of the safety, and at worst blow the gun up.

    Yes, the striker does strike the firing pin. The only thing the safety does on this gun is prevent the trigger from being pulled.
     
  17. plexreticle

    plexreticle Member

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    Looks like a user problem not a safety flaw.

    Poor choice of words in naming the video.
     
  18. baryon

    baryon Member

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    From what I have read, Taurus has fixed this in the OSS and the 24/7 DS models. Not sure about the PT 1XX series.

    This was already discussed on www.taurusarmed.net website last year. Some people were unable to replicate this issue.

    By the way, M&P is a SA as the striker is fully cocked. Pulling the trigger merely cams the sear that is holding the striker.
     
  19. Majic

    Majic Member

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    No the pistol would not eject the spent case since the slide can't move. The slide lock won't break as there is not that much gas pressure powering the slide and the pistol won't blow up since nothing hinders the bullet.
     
  20. spacemanspiff.mc

    spacemanspiff.mc Member

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    It's almost like saying that the ability to manually lower the hammer on a live round to put the gun in condition 2 is a design flaw in the 1911. Can you really blame the gun if the user wants to over-ride the safety features and put the gun in an unsafe mode?
     
  21. GregGry

    GregGry Member

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    If there was enough buildup of crud in the weapon that the trigger didn't reset all the way forward this issue could happen without a users assistance.

    I realize that the 4 rules of gun saftey apply to this firearm, and would certainly prevent people from getting hurt. However thats the how the firearm is handled issue.

    The engineering issue is that the saftey does not do its job properly. How many other safties on pistols do the same thing? I can't think of any (none of my pistols do).

    You have to seperate the design flaw and the 4 saftey rules. If a pistol existed that would discharge a round 3 seconds after after you touched the trigger regardless of if you pulled the trigger or not (due to some serious design flaw) is it right to just say "I see nothing wrong, maintain the 4 rules and nobody will get hurt? Sure if nothing ever touched the trigger its not going to go off. That completely glosses over the fact the engineering is wrong.

    Like I said before, this issue should be fixed, or they should eliminate the saftey.
     
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