About Home Defense gun selection - why no shotshell revolvers

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socalbeachbum

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I got a pile of gun mags on my coffee table with several articles about shotguns vs carbine vs handguns for home defense. I always read these articles and wonder why they don't mention a .410 shotshell revolver like the Judge or the Governor. We in California can't have them, but I'm just wondering, do they make sense for home defense?
 
There's practically nothing that a shotshell-firing revolver can do that a regular bullet-firing handgun can't do better. (With the possible exception of firing small loads of very small shot for executing snakes at close range without fear of ricochets.)

They certainly aren't easier to hit with. You still have to aim them just like any other hand gun, except now your projectiles aren't all going to go just where you intended. They are large and unwieldy. Many shooters don't take the time to become good DA revolver shooters, and so DA revolvers get a reputation as being harder to shoot well than common auto pistols. Making them larger and heavier to hold shotshells doesn't improve that.

Further, few knowledgeable shooters or instructors recommend anyone plan to defend themselves with shot loads of birdshot, but .410 bore shells don't hold much in the larger shot sizes. The shot, or "disc" or whatever payloads aren't as terminally effective -- by FAR -- as normal bullets.

Of course, they can work. Anything CAN work. But in a defensive situation where lives are at stake in split-second moments of action, the wise person would chose whatever stacks the odds most heavily in his or her favor. What's most likely to work best.

Back in the days of the old Thunder 5, and then again when the Judge series came out and were so heavily marketed, and again when S&W jumped on Taurus' coat tails with the Governor, there were small flurries of articles about using them for defensive purposes, including imagining scenarios where they might make some sense as a purposeful choice for self-defense. The farther we get away from their big product launch debuts and the burst of enthusiasm surrounding that, the fewer articles we see where people try to make a serious case for choosing one for self-defense.
 
A shotgun revolver sounds cool. What could be better than the power of a shotgun combined with the portability of a pistol?

The answer? Almost anything.

.410 shotshells perform poorly out of short, rifled handgun barrels. They cannot build up enough speed or power to be very effective, and the rifling makes the shot spread out very quickly. Even when loaded with slugs or bullets, performance is usually pedestrian at best. Shotguns and handguns are fine weapons individually, but they don't really mix very well.
 
The name of the original Taurus shotshell revolver explains the very small niche these revolvers were designed to fulfill in Brazil before becoming a marketing gimmick here. In Brazil, members of the judiciary were being targeted for violent crime, often executions on the road in their vehicles. Car-jacking and armed robbery while stopped in traffic are not uncommon problems. Strange Brazilian gun laws allow for a smoothbore revolver (but not a rifled one). Enter the Taurus Judge, exploiting Brazilian gun laws to address a real crime problem. In that role, rather like the pre-1934 Ithaca Auto & Burglar pistol (20 ga, double barrel), the firearm has merit.

Since US gun laws forbid a smoothbore revolver, the 45/410 combo of the Judge, Governor, and Court Jester models sold in the US is simply quite ridiculous. Far be it from me to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't own in a firearm, but, with regards to these abominations as home defense, Sam explains it well above.
 
The Thunder Five was made in nearby Piney Flats, Tennessee and I examined one at one of the distributors decades ago. My concern about the Thunder Five, Judge, Governor, etc. is that a dedicated .45 Colt revolver will probably shoot more accurately with bulleted ammo than one of these hybrd revolvers with the compromised .45LC/.410 chamber. I load shotshells for my .45 Webley Mark IV and understand the allure of a revolver with shotshells. I just don't see the point of buying a hybrid for curiosity sake and hestitate to recommend one for a first or primary weapon.
That said, a friend who has a .45/.410 Judge tells me it is what he carries on the farm, and he likes it. He has several other handguns, rifles, and shotguns, but it fits the niche of "tractor gun". He has potted game birds with it and believes from the seat of a tractor it could handle something like a coyote if he came across it while working the farm. He and his wife have other go-to guns for home defense.
 
Large, heavy, limited ammunition capacity, excessive flash and blast, and the HUGE patterns these things puke out with either a few 00 pellets or else pellets more suitable for small game.. And when hunting, what is a full sized 410 shotgun with, say, a 24" barrel (providing better patterns and velocity) suitable for? Rabbits? Squirrels? Doves (if you are a child or small female)? What's to like about these things? To me they are just "gimmicks". Athough, I have always wondered how one would do loaded with a Hatten-type round for door breaching, if such a thing were made.
 
A .410 slug has considerably less power than a stand .38 Special, which is anemic at best. .410 shot shells are worse. And it's in a crap gun with a horrid trigger
 
Ever hear the phrase, "you can't get there from here"? It would be different if handguns with smooth bores weren't covered under NFA. Or if we had a high pressure version of the .410. A .460S&W case packed with #4's and enough powder to get them to 1200fps down a choked smoothbore barrel might have some merit but under present circumstances, it's just a gimmick.
 
very enlightening. so for once, I feel like it's no big deal that we can't have one of these in California. oh, wait, what if I was a collector and it was the one piece I just must have? Joking aside, thanks for the replies, sounds like a pretty non-necessary piece of equipment. Makes me wonder why Smith tooled it up. But of course they are in it for the profits.
 
I got a pile of gun mags on my coffee table with several articles about shotguns vs carbine vs handguns for home defense. I always read these articles and wonder why they don't mention a .410 shotshell revolver like the Judge or the Governor. We in California can't have them, but I'm just wondering, do they make sense for home defense?
Nope. The .410 is pretty anemic from a shotgun-length barrel and offers no advantage over the .45 Colt. You're better off with a gun designed for the .45 Colt, shooting a bullet designed for defensive use.
 
If one looks at the well known and respected trainers - no one recommends one as a primary home defense weapon.Tom Givens did a very thorough review of them for SWAT and documented why they aren't the best choice.
 
A .410 shotshell, even with the largest shot size available is likely going to be a very poor "stopper" unless at literal contact distance. I would place the three-ball round in the same league. And I would go as far to say that any .380 auto pistol or .38 revolver on up would be a far better choice at contact distances on out.
 
Note: I don't own a judge, probably won't buy a judge, and have multiple options that I feel are better than a judge...

...BUTTT having said that, I think there is some merit to a combo revolver for self defense, especially one that can shoot .45LC as well.

There are plenty of videos online, one with HickOk45 to be exact, blasting vents/duct work with a judge. I'm pretty sure the #4 shot left a really nasty hole. I know that duct work and bad guys are two very different things, but there is something to be said about a baseball sized hole as opposed to a hole less than half an inch.

It's kinda the same logic that I use when I pick turkey loads to dutch load in my 12 gauge for home defense. Yeah, those slugs and buckshot penetrate, but removing a crater out of soemthing also packs a wallop. Look at people shooting hams and turkeys on youtube.

Plus, there was that kid who killed the bear with birdshot (albiet, a perfect shot... yep, that story will be cited for years in internet lore) so it's not like shot shells are the same as airsoft.

So I think it can be an option if it's dutchloaded with .45.
 
The 000 and .40" buckshot loads have been tested from the Judges, and give surprisingly tight patterns with decent penetration. But on the other hand it's a large 5-shot revolver that's not very accurate and can have a stout recoil.

'ShootingTheBull410' did a good video on this:

 
Federal's .410 000 buckshot load contains four or five .36 caliber pellets, depending on the load, that penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage tissues critical to immediate survival when fired from a Judge or Governor. I've shot this load thru a Taurus Judge and it patterned well. Recoil was manageable. I was surprised at the weight of the Judge - a 3" Magnum, 3" bbl - I expected it to be heavier and unwieldy which it is not. I wouldn't discourage anyone who wanted one for home defense as it will certainly get the job done with the right load.

I bought my wife an 18" Taurus Circuit Judge revolver shotgun for home defense for when I'm on business travel. It offers the simplicity of operation of a revolver combined with the increased hit potential of a long gun. It's loaded with the Federal 000 buckshot load containing five pellets.
 
For home defense portability is not an issue. Any pump shotgun 20 ga or better is cheaper, easier to fire with accuracy, and is vastly more powerful than a .410 handgun. I don't doubt a Judges utility but there are IMHO better options out there.
 
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Any pump shotgun 20 ga or better is cheaper, easier to fire with accuracy, and is vastly more powerful than a .410 handgun.

Under stress a pump shotgun can be short-stroked, and it can jam which requires addition training to learn how to quickly clear. With a revolver you aim and press the trigger. No manual safety, no action release (if the shotgun is stored in cruiser ready condition), no pumping the action.

Plus a revolver is easier to store securely.
 
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Under stress a pump shotgun can be short-stroked, and it can jam which requires addition training to learn how to quickly clear. With a revolver you aim and press the trigger. No manual safety, no action release (if the shotgun is stored in cruiser ready condition), no pumping the action.
I like a side by side with auto ejectors.
 
Because the biggest one made is a 28 ga, and I'm not putting my hand in front of the cylinder on a Rossi Circuit Judge, even with that block of steel in front of it, or a Root Model Colt Revolving shotgun. The handgun versions great for snakes, fun range toy, but not my choice for an HD gun.
 
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