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accessibility, time counts

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by cheeseinwisconsin, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. cheeseinwisconsin

    cheeseinwisconsin Member

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    Accessibility , Time Counts
    Although there are a variety of means and methods a person can employ to carry their concealable firearm on their person, the key factor of “accessibility” can be the determining factor of the out come.
    How quickly an individual is able to gain access to their concealed firearm during a highly volatile and stressful situation and confront the threat depends on two factors. Number one is what physical position finds themselves at the time of the confrontation. Standing erect on your feet? Sitting in a car? Lying on the ground? Number two is the preferred method one carrying their firearm and what type of equipment utilized securing the firearm. IWB, OWB, POCKET, ANKLE, or SHOULDER among other ways are variety of ways to conceal carry with each method having both pluses and minuses.

    Lets start with a situation where one is standing erect on their feet during an encounter. Pocket carry wins here with my vote. Concealed and readily available with a minimum of body mechanics involved during presentation of the firearm. Add to that I would venture to say most of us during our lives have developed muscle memory by repeatedly reaching into our pockets to retrieving a variety of items. So, under times of extreme stress this muscle memory imprinting could lend itself to a quicker and successful presentation of a concealed firearm. On the downside if one is seated, or lying prone, pocket carry can present some delay in retrieving the firearm. Not impossible, but definitely can slow things down. Now lets look at IWB, OWB and SHOULDER HOLSTER carry options , These methods require some additional measures for concealment purposes, i.e. coat, jacket,shirt,etc. Slower in retrieval of a concealed firearm but advantageous while seated, kneeling, or lying prone. Also presents the issue of telegraphing your moves to your adversary , i.e. sweeping back your jacket, lifting your shirt etc. which can be counterproductive and have an adverse impact on the outcome. Finally utilizing a ankle holster does provide a good measure of concealability and advantage of being readily available while lying prone, kneeling or sitting but like IWB, OWB and SHOULDER HOLSTER, rapid retrieval can be delayed.

    Lastly, regardless on what method one utilizes to carry their concealable firearm, one thing that is imperative is your holster gear. It is somewhat perplexing to me why an individual would shell out a considerable amount of cash to purchase a quality firearm yet settle for a mediocre holster. Why would anyone purchase a holster that could invariably delay a rapid ,unimpeded draw of a firearm. It is just as important to have a good, operational, quality holster as the gun itself. Remember accessibility, time counts.

    Cordially,
    Robert Mika

    P.S. Any feedback regarding this post from members of this forum would be greatly appreciated
     
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  2. JONWILL

    JONWILL Member

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    Slower in retrieval of a concealed firearm but advantageous while seated, kneeling, or lying prone. Also presents the issue of telegraphing your moves to your adversary , i.e. sweeping back your jacket, lifting your shirt etc. which can be counterproductive and have an adverse impact on the outcome

    I had an encounter where the act of reaching for a firearm stopped the bad guy. I was out on a walk near a strip mall. Later in the evening, still light. In the glass I caught a reflection of a someone coming behind me.

    I turned looked at the guy and put my hand back where I carry my Concealed Carry Gun. He hesitated when he saw me, turned around and moved away.

    In this case telegraphing saved me from a potential attack.
     
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  3. RETG

    RETG Member

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    I'll continue to carry my handguns where I have carried them for three (+) decades, and that is in a strong side holster; concealed or not, depending on the situation.
     
  4. jar

    jar Member

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    Fortunately today there exists the variety of guns themselves and holsters to accommodate a variety of carry options. One on the hip and one or more in pockets is pretty easy to do these days. Also ankle holsters while wearing shorts can at times be an issue. And let's not forget the advantage of the Sporran, easily accessed both standing and sitting and even when lying prone if you are face up.

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  5. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    IMO, strong side carry on the belt is the carry method with a "universal adaptor", and is the method I use unless its just not feasible. Whatever method chosen, the shooter should train with it, and train as realistically as possible. Way too many shooters completely miss the bus on this.
     
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  6. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Are you asking for feedback about the writing or about the subject? I'll assume it's the subject. Pocket carry is one of the slowest on body carry positions there are, even slower than ankle carry if the person has good mobility. It also requires a lot smaller weapon. I have heard of people pocket carrying a Glock 26 sized gun but IMO, pocket carrying a gun that size without significant printing is really only viable for people who are obese. I carry AIWB. I've got 15 rounds on tap in a gun that is extremely reliable, has an attached light, can be drawn very quickly, can also be drawn with less movement than with almost any other carry method (including pocket carry), can be drawn fairly easily with the support hand (ever try that with a pocket holster?) and with which I can make consistent hits on a torso sized target out to 75 yards or more. Pocket carry has it's place, but IMO, it's as a BUG or in specific circumstances where other methods just aren't an option for some reason.
     
  7. Gridley

    Gridley Member

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    As others have noted, the third and equally important factor is training. IMO you want to get your draw down to muscle memory - you shouldn't have to *think* about any of the actions needed to present the weapon. This will probably take hundreds of repetitions and regular continuing training. That's a big investment of your time - probably more than it took you to earn the money for a good holster (and if you actually wear the first CC holster you bought as your regular CC my hat is off to you - I think I bought three before I found one that really worked for me).

    As for advocating pocket carry... that depends on the pistol you select. A S&W M&P 40 (full size) just isn't realistic for a pocket carry for most people. Part of the selection of a pistol for CC is determining how you will conceal it. If you're fine carrying a sub-compact pistol then pocket carry may be a great choice for you. If you want a larger capacity, barrel length, etc. it may not be.
     
  8. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    ... sometimes.

    :)
     
  9. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    Pocket carry is the slowest method there is.

    Strong side OWB is probably the fastest.

    Whatever you choose, in order for it to be accessible in a timely manner you need to practice/train with that.
     
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  10. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Ever try appendix?
     
  11. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Maybe it's just me but when I see the same post pop up on S&W forum, Glock Talk, Defensive Carry. Com and THR all at the same time I wonder if the OP has an axe to grind
     
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  12. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    Think very carefully WHERE that barrel is pointed ESPECIALLY when you are sitting down.
    Then think again
    .
     
  13. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Just so it's clear, I wasn't asking if Good Ol' Boy had tried appendix because I wanted his opinion, ( not that his opinion is a bad thing). I was asking in response to his statement about strong side carry being the fastest. All else being equal, appendix is faster, hands down. I have carried AIWB now for roughly 5 years or so. I'm fully aware of the arguments against it and I'll readily agree that it's not for everyone. Not really interested in getting into that debate again. That one is kinda like the AR vs. AK, Glock vs. everybody, 9mm vs. .40 vs. .45, etc etc. They've been going on for years and will continue going on as long as online gun forums exist. :)
     
  14. camsdaddy

    camsdaddy Member

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    If the OP had not signed his name I may have thought the same. I have often posted the same question to get well balanced feed back on multiple forums with out further motive. I find different forums attract different types of people and often the replies can vary widely. The OP did sign his name. Mr Mika is the owner of Mika holsters. I have had conversations with him and he is a polite professional that cares about his customers and also the gun community. I have several of his pocket holsters. I think I recall him retiring from law enforcement and has probably freed up time for study and reflection.
     
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  15. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Yup, this thread, and the fact that the OP hasn't responded to anyone since he first posted, suddenly makes a lot more sense.
     
  16. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    It wasn't a question it was an article
     
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  17. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Written by someone who doesn’t own a shot timer.
     
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  18. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    Yup, and by someone who has a business selling pocket holsters.
     
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  19. RevolvingGarbage

    RevolvingGarbage Member

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    I've carried for years AIWB with 1911's (when I was bigger) and double action revolvers. I'm comfortable with either of those designs carried in this way, but you can bet I would never trust a striker fired handgun carried loaded in the same position.
     
  20. cheeseinwisconsin

    cheeseinwisconsin Member

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    1. Just wanted to thank everyone for their comments . For clarification purposes, I posted this statement only to only to offer my point of view and not for the purpose of self promotion. It is not the way I operate and I apologize if I offended anyone.
     
  21. labnoti

    labnoti Member

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    A couple of posts on pocket carry have missed it due to preconceptions. Take any full-size handgun you might carry in a duty holster and put it in your right-front pocket. Chances are only the butt will be protruding from the pocket. It's easily concealed with an untucked shirt. With the butt exposed, it is quicker to draw than IWB because the reach is lower. Pocket carry is not just for pocket guns that are small enough to conceal inside the pocket. Even if you want to completely conceal a larger gun, you can extend the pocket until the muzzle starts to hit your knee. As with all concealed carry, a holster should be used.
     
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