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Accidental Discharge -1911

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by BP Hunter, Feb 10, 2010.

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  1. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    I am seriously thinking of purcahsing my first 1911. I am thinking of getting the Kimber Ultra Carry II to replace my Kel Tec PF9 as my CCW. Pistols like the Glock with the safety trigger keeps the gun from shooting ulness you pull the trigger, the Springfield XD has the safety trigger and the grip to prevent firing unless all mechanisms are engaged, some other guns have the decocker. The 1911's are carried cocked and locked. Are they on top of the list on accidental discharges? I might be wrong here, so please correct me.
     
  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Well, they are probably way way under the number of ND's involving Glocks.

    For one, you don't have to pull the trigger on a 1911 to get the slide off to clean it.
    And you can't possibly pull the trigger when holstering it if you have brains enough to put the safety on first.

    A 1911 is about as safe as a gun can get if you take the time to learn to use it properly.

    rc
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  3. gunhack

    gunhack Member

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    My understanding was that the 1911 was originally issued to be carried condition-3 (hammer down on an empty chamber with a loaded magazine)... if you're not comfortable carrying condition-1 (cocked & locked), carry condition-3 and learn to charge the weapon upon presentation.. I have done so for years... shot IDPA that way... but then I have not ever been in a gun fight...
     
  4. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    Guns dont have Accidental Discharges, people do. The gun make doesnt matter.
     
  5. Just One Shot

    Just One Shot Member

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    The 1911 is a great gun but.......It's not my idea of the best choice for CC.

    There are many more options that are lighter, more accurate, have higher capacity and easier to conceal.

    But, if that's what you want then go for it.
     
  6. Quack

    Quack Member

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    1911's are safer to carry than a Glock. i just don't buy into the little trigger safety thing, because if anything accidentally gets in the way of the trigger, it will go off. with the 1911, you have the manual thumb safety.

    the fear of carrying a 1911 is knowing that there is a visible cocked hammer.
     
  7. Quack

    Quack Member

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    read points L and M in Section VII

    194020FM2023-2520TM.jpg
     
  8. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    My other carry is the Taurus PT145 which holds 10+1 in .45. The pull of the trigger is just too long, though I have gotten use to it. Holding a similar 1911 in 3" - Colt Defender - yesterday in the store made me think twice. Yes the 1911 holds 3 less but tghe feel and trigger felt so right.
     
  9. The Wiry Irishman

    The Wiry Irishman Member

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    I think the OPs logic is a bit backwards. There aren't too many if any guns currently made that, properly maintained, can fire without the trigger being pulled. Therefor the biggest source of accidental discharges will be operator negligence, ie someone pulling the trigger when they shouldn't. Which do you think this would be more succeptible to this, a gun with all passive safeties that requires nothing more than a trigger pull to fire, or a gun with two external safties that must be deactivated before a trigger pull will result in a discharge?

    As ljnowell said, though, if you carry the gun in a proper holster that fully covers the trigger gaurd, what kind of gun you have is irrellevant. The real safety is between your ears.
     
  10. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    Never hear of 1911 Leg . But heard of glock leg A 1911 is safer to carry have thumb safety you must push off. Grip safety and on most newer 1911 firing pin block till trigger is pulled .
     
  11. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    Yep, it's all I can do to shoot single hole five shot groups at 25 yards and it weighs a whopping 2.5 pounds (several pounds lighter than my wife's purse). It's so difficult to conceal, I haven't tucked in my shirt for over 30 years. It holds only nine rounds, so I can't use the "hold it sideways and crank on the trigger" method favored by many. I have to actually use the sights.

    Sarcasm aside, what works for one man may be a disaster for another.
     
  12. mec

    mec Member

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    Sections L and M are interesting. My father was Navy CBs in WWII. They almost always carried the 1911 chamber empty. In North Africa, there was some incident or incidents involving the native people. At that time his people were told to load the chamber/cock and lock when going to town and although the natives were their allies, shoot them if necessary and be prepared to be fined the cost of the cartridge.
     
  13. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

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    Speaking as someone who has carried both the DAO PT-111 and the SA/DA PT-111 extensively, once you have a chance to shoot a SAO 1911 you'll immedialtely understand why they have been so popular for so long. Be prepared to see a dramatic improvement in your marksmanship.

    Put your PT-145 on top of that Colt Defender and I think you'll be surprised about the size difference.

    I can see each point except the "more accurate" one. Could you please identify an auto-loader in .45 acp that is lighter and easier to conceal that is also more accurate than a 1911? Inquiring minds want to know.

    The OP is talking about a Cold Defender... not a 5" steel framed GI model.
     
  14. NMGonzo

    NMGonzo Member

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    I hear ya, but I shoot better with heavier guns.
     
  15. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    This is wrong on many levels.

    Guns do have acciddental discharges. When a gun fires due to a mechanical malfunction of some sort, it is an accidental discharge. When a gun is fired unintentionally by a person, it is a negligent discharge.

    Gun makes can matter, especially in regard to some poorly made guns.

    I don't know of any other guns that are more accurate than 1911s. That isn't to say the 1911 is the most accurate, only that I don't know of any that are more accurate, certainly none that are smaller, lighter, and easier to conceal. Their slim profile also makes them easy to conceal.
     
  16. Willy G.

    Willy G. Member

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    Buy one, I did and carry IWB in a Silent Thunder. I feel as comfortable if not more than having my 442 in my front pocket or IWB. I don't get the whole "safe action trigger" thing, to me it's like having a revolver with a lighter trigger pull and no real safety to speak of.
     
  17. 51403847

    51403847 Member

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    Hello All:

    This is my first post, and glad to be here.

    Safety with an automatic is all in the hands of the owner, or as one guy said 'between the shooter's ears'.

    I carried an old Remington-Rand for years when with the local S.D., one in the chamber, cocked & with the strap under the hammer. Never had a problem, never shot anyone, but had to draw several times.

    It's all with where your mind is & your familiarity with the weapon.

    51403847
     
  18. easyg

    easyg Member

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    Yep, it's true....when Glock pistols came on to the scene they quickly revealed just how careless some guys were when handling their handguns.

    Those folks who had been using revolvers for so long, with the typical heavy double-action revolver trigger-pull, and those who had been relying upon a manual safety, had developed some bad habits....
    like fingering the trigger while holstering or when otherwise messing with the handgun.

    Well, the Glock simply will not tolerate such sloppy technique and poor handling practice, and it's quick to point out your mistakes with a loud "BANG!".

    But don't blame the pistol, blame the guy who had his finger on the trigger when he shouldn't have.
     
  19. BP Hunter

    BP Hunter Member

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    Thanks for all your responses. All of gun owners, at least most of us, know basic gun safety. I just wanted to know if the 1911's vs othe popular pistols have a higher incidence rate of negligent discharge. I guess I meant to say negligent dischage versus accidental dsicharge. Thanks for the correction.
     
  20. easyg

    easyg Member

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    I do.

    Just about any revolver fired single-action.
    No slide moving, no barrel tilting, just a hammer falling.
     
  21. RP88

    RP88 Member

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    aside from the aforementioned SA revolvers - what are these options? When it comes to a duty/carry gun, none are going to be more accurate. Some will maybe match accuracy, but you're gonna be hard-pressed to beat a decent 1911 with anything other than a decent 1911.
     
  22. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    National Match grade 1911's begin out-scoring Target revolvers in the late 50's early 60's.

    By the late 1960's gun development of the semi-autos had made it impossible to win a top level NRA Bullseye match shooting a revolver.

    I do agree that almost any good DA/SA revolver is easier to shoot really accurately then any of todays run-of-the mill combat tupperware guns though.

    rc
     
  23. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    Ditto... do your part to be safe, and no modern weapon will fire on it's own. That being said, pick the gun that has the ergonomics which suit you best. For me it's a Glock or a DA revolver due to its simplicity. For others, its a 1911. None of them will give you an excuse to be careless.
     
  24. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

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    Most mechanical failures are caused by poor maintenance/gunsmithing. We're back to ND.
     
  25. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    The 1911 is less likely to ND than most any gun I can think of that still has a quick to action trigger. It really is a safe gun, it just gets a bad rep due to the scary cocked hammer. But I'd look into the Walther PPS, Kahr Pm9, Glock 26 befroe the 3" Kimber. Especially the Walther PPS, very nice.

    The Glock and Glock type guns, need to be carefully reholstered. Not a problem because you don't need to hurry to reholster being that the threat has been eliminated. The striker fired guns are simple, don't pull the trigger and they don't go bang.

    Decockers are for DA/SA guns like the Ruger P95, FN, HK, Berretta etc. I hate DA/SA guns with a passion.

    Rule of thumb with all pistols. Get a good holster that covers the trigger and has good retention. Whether you carry the gun, or let it sit on the nightstand, I recommend keeping loaded pistols in a holster. An ounce of prevention.......

    Crossbreed and CTAC are good, so are the Allesi holsters.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
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